Religion

[Figment]

Originally Posted by kertvon

that is all, I have nothing more to say.

Lewis is a man you can argue with, he is after all... a Christian Apologist and a person who uses christianity in his books to spread a christian message. Of course he's not going to accept the idea that he's simply a man and the other two options are unacceptable to a christian anyway.


By the same account, you'd be saying because Plato believed in Pantheon gods and perhaps would swear some deities exist (would he? He applied a lot of mythology too), he can't be a philosopher and moral teacher? Sure, Plato did not claim to be a son of a god, but on the other hand, it wasn't uncommon for ancient Greeks to believe someone (else) or themselves to be a son of a deity. Would they all be nutcases and can't nutcases have any accomplishments?

Personally I'd go with something like: in principle benevolent, but perhaps narcissistic or psychotic (not in an aggressive way), zealoty, Jewish morals and ethics teacher. But most importantly, just a man (or multiple men as some claim).

Or in short, Jewish sektarian cult leader and Jewish inductive philosopher and theologist. Note the use of the word Jewish, because he's argueing within that theology and expands on it. Quite possible he suffered from some sort of megalomania or other hallucinations of grandeur. Perhaps inspired and stimulated by his parents when asked about them not being married when having a kid (beats getting stoned to death), but hey, megalomania beats inferiority complex.


But to be certain, he should have been psychologically tested. Regardless, none of those definitions is a good reason to blindly follow.

[ItsTheSheppy]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Poe's law is strong. I couldn't tell you were joking before I guess. Sorry for that.

I still can't tell if he's joking. Poe's law is a bitch.

[kertvon]

Lol. I had never even heard of Poe's law until this thread, and I definitely did not intend for my post to come off that way.

Just to make myself clear... I am a Christian and the point of the post by C.S. Lewis is what I think is at the heart of it. For me, Christianity is and will always be all about Jesus. Many an individual has distorted that truth, but He is what is it all about. I believe very strongly that he is who he said he that he is, and as a side effect of that, I have to take him for everything he said, not just some of it. Hence the quote by C.S.

I know saying I believe that a man was the son of God/God himself is not popular ideology, but it is not something I can deny so easily. I am the person I am today because I have allowed his words to change and guide my life. This isn't just some indoctrinated spiritual cosmos nonsense for me. It hits home, right in my own heart and conscious. Yes the good principles he suggested could stand alone without him being WHO he said he was, but without him being WHO he was and dying on the cross, it is all for nothing. He broke the chains of sin and death and that is what was really needed. I don't really care for another great teaching, I need a savior.

Christianity inside the box of religion doesn't work because it doesn't properly define what it means to be a Christian. Being a Christian means to be radically sold out to Jesus. Jesus summed up generations of Levitical law with 2 simple principles. Love God, love people. These two commands have changed my life forever and I do my best to live by them every single day. There is a very complex work that took place on the cross that day over 2000 years ago and it has taken me years of reading the Bible to piece most of it together.

As far as other religions are concerned, I have decided to stray far from religion and close to Christ. I don't serve a religion. Call me crazy if you will, but I serve what I believe to to be the living God, and from what I can decipher from the inspired writings of the Bible, He doesn't really portray the desire to be placed inside a religion.

Hammering people discussing matters of belief on a web forum is highly contradictory to what I stand for. It isn't my place to interfere with your beliefs if you have no desire for me to. I honestly wish there was a less intrusive way to express how much accepting Christ has changed my life, but if you don't believe he is who he said he is, then it gets really awkward... I just hope that by letting my light shine, which was the purpose of my original post, Jesus might be given a bit more glory, because I am not ashamed to call him Lord. With that being said, this will be my last post on this thread unless it is in response to someone who is genuinely seeking after constructive discussion.

I sincerely hope that I have not offended anyone. God bless, and I look forward to seeing you guys in Auraxis!

[Sirisian]

// Edit, I respect what you said, so I'm not going to criticize anything. It's refreshing to see a post like yours.

[Elude]

Could it even be considered faith if it's impenetrable and impossible to doubt?

I thought the whole Idea of faith is to have disbelief in your belief, otherwise it's just a fact in your mind (regardless if it's actually true or not).

[MadPenguin]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

How do I know there is more to the universe? It's very simple, we have ALWAYS been wrong in EVERYTHING we've done; including the knowledge of the universe.

If we have always been wrong about everything, then we have NEVER been right about ANYTHING. So in other words, since we claim the Sun exists and we are wrong about everything, you have to defend the claim the Sun doesn't exist is order to maintain intellectual honesty. Are you going to try and defend this stance you've taken?

However, lets say for arguments sake we have in fact always been wrong about everything, this still doesn't mean "God done it". You are creating a false dichotomy whereby either science has the answer or God did it. The proponents of Thor and Poseidon no doubt argued along a very similar line to you. So here's how you know your logic is wrong: other people have used the exact same line of logic and it has led them to incorrect conclusions.

This is very simple and it is very un-complex. We.... DID not.. come from nothing

This is why you're not a scientist, we don't know this for sure, how do you know how a plane of nothingness operates? If you want to claim that there is nothing that can come from a state of nothingness then you need to explain fully how this state operates and exactly what property it is that prevents anything from arising from this state. For example how do we know quantum mechanics doesn't exist in a different way in such a state. Now of course I'm not saying quantum mechanics definitely exists in this state, I'm saying we have no idea if it does or not. So while we remain ignorant how about we don't make claims to certainty.

And even if it didn't come from a state of something, this still doesn't mean God is the only answer, unless your willing to use the line of "logic" that i talked about above.

[Baneblade]

Duke... just no.

[Figment]

Duke, if you are so adamant something must have come from something else...


Don't you see how your entire logic is just ruined because a god - that's infinitely more complex than us considering the power and wisdom you attribute to it - must have come from somewhere as well by your own definition of "things don't come from nothing".


You yourself argue that you cannot create your own species and a species that does not exist is not capable of creating itself in extreme detail and power. Can you follow that logic? I'm not saying you want to, but can you? So clearly... your logic misses something. An even bigger picture.

And then... an even bigger, bigger picture.

And then... an even bigger, bigger, bigger picture.




Capiche?

No.

That's why you believe in a god: to end your incomprehension of the universe and satisfy and ease yourself.

At the same time, you got nothing to show for it. That may be fine to you, it's not fine for us. We'll look further than stop at "oh a deity must have done it, cause I really don't understand any of it".

You want us to believe we know nothing, simply because you don't and you don't like being stupid so you want an answer, any answer, even if it makes no sense at all and there's nothing to back that argument up. Especially if it only raises more questions.

That's not how it works with us. What you believe is your thing. You like being clueless and love fairytales about the universe's origins, fine. Don't expect anyone else to be as easily satisfied with a nonsense answer.

[Effective]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

I am not wrong.

Yes, yes you are.

[NivexQ]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Earth, Mars, Venus... Planets... Ok?

Pluto, Planet X, Hubble telescope and what it can see... Ok?

The hubble telescope can see about 1.5x10^13 times farther than Pluto.

That's like saying "I'm going to count to 1 million" and then saying "1, etc."

The Hubble Space Telescope can see about 12 billion light years away.
For a comparison, Pluto is only ~5 light HOURS away (0.0005703855806525211 light years)

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

It most assuredly did not arise from nothing...

Demonstrate how you know this.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Something HAD to make it and we just dont know what it is yet.....

No "had" about it, nor is "make it" the right term.

Something (not someone) may have triggered it and we just don't know what it was yet.

That's where you end. That's the stop. You don't know, so you don't know. You have no reason to go beyond that point.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

I personally choose to believe it's MY God...

Were you brought up with a god?

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

IF I am wrong, IF I have lived my life in absolute ignorance and I die... I have lost absolutely nothing. At least I chose SOMETHING.

Actually you might have lost something. If your god is responsible for our minds, maybe he wants to see who uses them properly and who forsakes their god-given rationality to believe what they want to believe. Or maybe it's someone elses god presiding over us, in which case I imagine he'll treat us neutrals far better than those who had an affair with some pretender.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

And that is far more than many of you have chosen. And I'm sorry.... Through the masks that are placed on your face, through the years you've learned to accept whatever it is you accepted to make you this way, To think this way.... Know this.

I am not wrong.

I've never had a blind person pity me for being able to see before.

It's called critical thinking and it's actually pretty useful. Maybe you should try it some time.

[Warborn]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

It's very simple, we have ALWAYS been wrong in EVERYTHING we've done; including the knowledge of the universe.

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

This is very simple and it is very un-complex. We.... DID not.. come from nothing. Something...... Somewhere...............Somehow................... ... In SOME shape form or fashion, in SOME way has SOMEHOW made the entire

U N I V E R S E

"I am assuring you that we are always wrong about the universe, and I know this because I am right about the universe."

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

Duke... just no.

Originally Posted by elfailo

Duke is winning again. The longer the post you reply with, the harder you lose.

Oh, did I win Door #3?

[Elude]

I don't think you're lucky DukeNukem, I think you're actually very unlucky lol.

I'm also not banding together with anyone and I'm certainly not fighting. You are right about one thing though, I do feel something inside me but I don't think it's a soul (may need a short bathroom break).

[Effective]

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

Waste of space

Incorrect batman.