Skyrim-Like Blocky Shadows

[disky]

Forgelight is a beautiful looking engine, and I know they say that they have future-proofed it for years, but from what I've seen of the shadows, they've gone with the same system that Bethesda has used in Skyrim, which is, in my opinion, a pretty terrible one. The default shadowmap is woefully low-res, and the only way I really found to improve (not fix) it was adjusting the shadow draw distance versus the shadow resolution. Additionally, shadows moved based on a set world timer, which resulted in a staccato shifting of the shadows across surfaces. Finding a middle ground involved a fair amount of editing of .ini files and setting the right world timescale, and even then I never really achieved shadows worthy of the game. With an MMO like PS2 in which the timescale is set server-side, we won't be able to adjust it, so that complicates things even further.

I'm wondering if the shadows were intentionally set low in order to achieve a good framerate for the demo, or if this is the default for the engine. Has anyone that has actually played the game taken time to have a look at the graphical settings? Can anyone shed some light on the techology and if it's possible to actually make it look up to par with the rest of the incredible technology they're running?

[EisenKreutzer]

I am certain there will be extensive options covering shadows along with every other aspect of the graphics.

[BlueSkies]

"Not in beta yet..."

Seriously though, there are a lot of little things here and there that have to be touched up (blocky tank tracks that disappear in big rectangles). The shadows may very well have been turned down in whatever clip you were looking at, or they were placeholders like so many other things.

[IgloGlass]

I haven't noticed any bad looking shadows myself though I have heard that you'll be able to (by means of console) toggle draw shadow distances for about 2 kilometers ahead, something no pc would be able to do right now, which is kind of awesome.

However I can not further add to the topic other than that, though it is of personal belief that the shadows will look quite good. Mostly because they make everything else look so damn good and they're holding off water just so that it will look amazing.

[Russ]

Skyrim was a console port. Thats why they were blocky, the resolution was just too low. So i wouldnt worry too much about it. I never saw any blockyness in the screen shots.

But i plan on turning off shadows, yes im one of those guys that plays every fps on low because it allows you to pick out targets easier. But a game still shouldnt take short cuts like a simple resolution change. Give us the ability to change the shadow resolution (aka quality/detail) and all will be well.

[disky]

Originally Posted by BlueSkies

"Not in beta yet..."

Seriously though, there are a lot of little things here and there that have to be touched up (blocky tank tracks that disappear in big rectangles). The shadows may very well have been turned down in whatever clip you were looking at, or they were placeholders like so many other things.

They've been blocky in every clip I've seen. I understand that the game is still in its early stages, but if you haven't played Skyrim, you wouldn't know that the blocky shadows were an accepted norm in that game, and never resolved. It was a by-design engine limitation and I'm trying to determine whether it's possible to resolve easily in Forgelight by adjusting settings, hopefully without too much of a framerate drop.

Originally Posted by IgloGlass

I haven't noticed any bad looking shadows myself though I have heard that you'll be able to (by means of console) toggle draw shadow distances for about 2 kilometers ahead, something no pc would be able to do right now, which is kind of awesome.

However I can not further add to the topic other than that, though it is of personal belief that the shadows will look quite good. Mostly because they make everything else look so damn good and they're holding off water just so that it will look amazing.

Watch the ground at the beginning of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjdloVQZ56M#t=10m28s

All of the environment shadows look like this. They're heavily pixelated, and you may not notice them until you're in game, where they become much more apparent.

Originally Posted by Russ

Skyrim was a console port. Thats why they were blocky, the resolution was just too low. So i wouldnt worry too much about it. I never saw any blockyness in the screen shots.

But i plan on turning off shadows, yes im one of those guys that plays every fps on low because it allows you to pick out targets easier. But a game still shouldnt take short cuts like a simple resolution change. Give us the ability to change the shadow resolution (aka quality/detail) and all will be well.

It was possible to increase the resolution of the shadowmap used in the PC version by editing .ini files, but the tradeoff was that you had to decrease the shadow draw distance. It was just how the shadows worked. If you pay close attention, the shadows do the same thing that Skyrim did when they time changed, as well; they click over a bit, with the distance determined by the timescale that the game is set to. It isn't a smooth transition.

So I believe Forgelight uses the same technology that Bethesda did with the engine used in Skyrim, and I'm trying to find out if a solution has been found to this problem since then. If they're just using a low setting because they don't think people will notice and they need a high framerate, then that's fine, but I'm really hoping that players will be able to increase the shadow quality, because it drove me nuts in Skyrim.

[haticK]

If PS2 was being made by Bethesda then I'd be worried. For now, it's really too early to tell if they will act the same way as in Skyrim unless someone is able to get an answer from a dev.

[NumbaOneStunna]

I distinctly remember hearing in a video (I think the gamespy one) that PS2 uses stencil shadows, which are the best looking but most hardware demanding.

I also remember saying that in the "Ultra" settings that you could enable the stencil shadows for the entire draw distance. Which would crush any video card currently in production.

On the other hard, this doesn't mean all settings modes use stencil shows. Probably in Medium to Low settings it switch's to soft shadows or shadow maps.

[SgtExo]

I do believe that you are overacting, or this could be a pet peeve for you. But the shadows look decent enough, and with all the action that is happening, I do believe ppl will be a bit too busy criticize the shadows. I a game like skyrim that is meant to absorb this can be an issue, but it isn't as important here IMO.

[disky]

Originally Posted by NumbaOneStunna

I distinctly remember hearing in a video (I think the gamespy one) that PS2 uses stencil shadows, which are the best looking but most hardware demanding.

I also remember saying that in the "Ultra" settings that you could enable the stencil shadows for the entire draw distance. Which would crush any video card currently in production.

On the other hard, this doesn't mean all settings modes use stencil shows. Probably in Medium to Low settings it switch's to soft shadows or shadow maps.

Useful info,

Originally Posted by SgtExo

I do believe that you are overacting, or this could be a pet peeve for you. But the shadows look decent enough, and with all the action that is happening, I do believe ppl will be a bit too busy criticize the shadows. I a game like skyrim that is meant to absorb this can be an issue, but it isn't as important here IMO.

The game is supposed to be beautiful, and it is. Except for this one thing. I think you may just not be as interested in this problem as I am, and that's fine.

[Sirisian]

If any of their graphics developers are looking at this thread, there is a better algorithm for shadow mapping called Rectilinear Texture Warping. It's very performance friendly and solves a lot of problems of shadow mapping and costlier shadow volume algorithms.