Gameplay: Squad-based AOE Class benifits

The Degenatron · 2012-06-28, 10:47 AM

The idea here is to encourage tight squads that move together and draw strength from each other. Each AOE would have a base radius and could be expanded with certifications. The base radius would be 15m and each cert would increase the radius by 5m. An alternate to the radius increase could be effectiveness increase, incrementing the output by 2~5 points depending on balance. The AOE abilities could be tied to implants.

Medic: Healing This is already in the game to some degree. The change is that the AOE would be always active, giving close squadmates a slow health trickle.

Engineer: Ammo This would supply a trickle of bullets to teammates, somewhere in the area of 2 rounds a second. Larger ammo like Max ammo and HA rockets would be 1 every 5 seconds.

Infiltrator: Ping This implant emmits a high frequncy sonic pulse and listens for the returning echos. It then spots all enemy within the radius of the ping. The infiltrator does NOT need to be close to the squad for them to get the spot information.*

Light Assault: Speed Squadmates near the LA would have a faster footspeed. Increased by 15%~20%

Heavy Assault: Shield The implant utilizes the power of the heavy's shield generator to boost the shields of nearby players. This decrease the shield recovery pause and the rebuild rate of the shield.

*Light Assaults could install an implant that allows to see enemy pings on their mini map. A blip with a rapidly expanding circle would show the range and origin of the ping. Upgrades to the Ping detector could slow the fade-out of the ping origin on the mini-map.

Saifoda · 2012-06-28, 12:06 PM

Interesting idea.

I think some of the stuff might be a bit OP, like the ammo rejuvenator and the shield, but that can all be worked out; the basic concept is pretty cool though.

I think this should be an outfit cert (assuming those exist) as opposed to every squad getting it or having it be part of squad leader certs or class specific certs.

Russ · 2012-06-28, 12:33 PM

Instead of it being an applies bonus why not something more passive like, an extra mag, extra health, extra sheild. Though it would funstion the same as squad perks in BF3. Once you have one applied they dont stack.

However this is problematic. Giving boosts like that can then force squads to only want certain members to join. Not so bad in outfits since there can be more organization. But for PUG groups that can really put new people off to playing. Join a squad and instantly get kicked because the squad leader wanted a LA not a medic.

But i like the idea of a squad/platoon/outfit (commander?) cert that would give a passive gain to all those under. It gets rid of that "i need x class" while encourage people to get into squads, to form platoons and get into an outfit (if there are certs for that).

The Degenatron · 2012-06-28, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Saifoda

Interesting idea.

I think some of the stuff might be a bit OP, like the ammo rejuvenator and the shield, but that can all be worked out; the basic concept is pretty cool though.

I think this should be an outfit cert (assuming those exist) as opposed to every squad getting it or having it be part of squad leader certs or class specific certs.

It would definitely need balancing. The ammo was the one I felt most comfortable with actually. The example I think of it The Ammo Rune from Op4CTF. When a player would pick up the rune, it would literally give them one bullet every half second for whatever gun they were carrying. (it also doubled their weapons magazine size, but that's definitely a no-no here).

I agree with it being outfit-based. It's meant to encourage tighter team play and Outfits have the same goal.

Originally Posted by Russ

Instead of it being an applies bonus why not something more passive like, an extra mag, extra health, extra sheild. Though it would funstion the same as squad perks in BF3. Once you have one applied they dont stack.

However this is problematic. Giving boosts like that can then force squads to only want certain members to join. Not so bad in outfits since there can be more organization. But for PUG groups that can really put new people off to playing. Join a squad and instantly get kicked because the squad leader wanted a LA not a medic.

But i like the idea of a squad/platoon/outfit (commander?) cert that would give a passive gain to all those under. It gets rid of that "i need x class" while encourage people to get into squads, to form platoons and get into an outfit (if there are certs for that).

Yea, absolutely no stacking on this. I'm not sure what you mean by "applied" vs. "passive". I see it as passive - something you turn on and leave on (except for maybe the infiltrator ping, they may want that triggered only). The reason for it be a continuous AOE is to actively encourage squad members to stay close to one another. If you just get a bonus on top just for being in the squad, that doesn't really keep you close to your team.

I see what you're saying about it making squads more selective. I don't really know what to think about that. You would hope they would kinda do that anyway, frankly. Squad composition is serious business!

Maybe a solution to that would be a wider range of cert specs or implants for each class. That way you could get different bonus from the same class type and that would aleviate some of that "we don't need you" mentality.

Hosp · 2012-06-28, 01:41 PM

I always found the best Paladin aura to be Thorns.

Much as it can be balanced, I don't find player centered AoE Buffs to be a function of FPSs. (TF2 aside).

Either give the squad the perk/buff or don't. But in general, No.

The Degenatron · 2012-06-28, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Hosp

I always found the best Paladin aura to be Thorns.

Much as it can be balanced, I don't find player centered AoE Buffs to be a function of FPSs. (TF2 aside).

Either give the squad the perk/buff or don't. But in general, No.

Try some Global Agenda. They take FPS AOE Buffing to a whole new level (Overkilled IMO).

Baneblade · 2012-06-28, 03:07 PM

Is this an attempt to bring buffing into PlanetSide?

Zekeen · 2012-06-29, 11:14 AM

This idea is way overkill as is, but there is a simple solution.

As it stands, you'd just have buffs EVERYWHERE, and that's no fair and not fun, but there's a way to expand it to a more tactical role!

Make the buffs a SQUADLEADER skill, so that when you are a squadleader ,you decide on the class that helps your squad most for the situation. That can expand the squadleader role a bit.

Sirisian · 2012-06-29, 03:45 PM

I'd support active versions that players could toggle at the cost of stamina or shield recharge or something. However, the last time someone suggested active rather than passive implants the community hated the idea.

The Degenatron · 2012-07-02, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Is this an attempt to bring buffing into PlanetSide?

It's an attempt to encourage tighter squad cohesion through positive re-enforcement, using a buffing system. It's a means to an end, not the end itself.

Originally Posted by Zekeen

This idea is way overkill as is, but there is a simple solution.

As it stands, you'd just have buffs EVERYWHERE, and that's no fair and not fun, but there's a way to expand it to a more tactical role!

Make the buffs a SQUADLEADER skill, so that when you are a squadleader ,you decide on the class that helps your squad most for the situation. That can expand the squadleader role a bit.

No fun and not fair for who? Team > Solo every time. The idea is to specificly encourage squads to stick together. The balance comes from the fact that individuals give up a personal implant for one that benefits the squad. The squad leader analogy to this is the respawn drop-pod perk, which is already in the game.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

I'd support active versions that players could toggle at the cost of stamina or shield recharge or something. However, the last time someone suggested active rather than passive implants the community hated the idea.

Giving up an implants spot is penalty enough. It should function like the Advanced Targeting in PS1.

Memeotis · 2012-07-02, 12:40 PM

I personally not a fan of passive AOE abilities in an FPS game. Squads should play well because they play well together and use their active abilities at the right times, not because they have more buffs.

The Degenatron · 2012-07-02, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Memeotis

I personally not a fan of passive AOE abilities in an FPS game. Squads should play well because they play well together and use their active abilities at the right times, not because they have more buffs.

And I'm for giving players a choice in how they want to play.

The obvious trade off is that implants that serve only the individual would have a greater individual effect and squad based implants would dilute across the entire squad.

Therefore, if a squad who can work together well without the squad-based implants runs across an enemy squad that relies on the squad-based perks, then the obvious victor would be the squad using the individual implants (but only if using them well and maintaining squad dicipline).

Coordinated Teamwork > Automated Teamwork > Soloists

Zalmoxis · 2012-07-02, 05:19 PM

This idea would just encourage clusterfucking honestly. Imagine 30 people occupying a space of 5 square meters for the bonuses, because there will be guys doing that ( more or less).

Plus, it would also discourage flanking and the use of any tactics that doesn't involve zerging/blitzing/full head-on assault.

Sirisian · 2012-07-02, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

The obvious trade off is that implants that serve only the individual would have a greater individual effect and squad based implants would dilute across the entire squad.

Seems easier to just make it an activated ability that affects both the player and friendlies. Don't make it a us or me gameplay element. I don't see why two versions would be necessary.

The big reason I don't like passive buffs is because they are passive. Having things that are activated with obvious penalties makes them a tactical advantage within a team rather than a constant advantage.

The Degenatron · 2012-07-03, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Zalmoxis

This idea would just encourage clusterfucking honestly. Imagine 30 people occupying a space of 5 square meters for the bonuses, because there will be guys doing that ( more or less).

Plus, it would also discourage flanking and the use of any tactics that doesn't involve zerging/blitzing/full head-on assault.

It's squad-based, not platoon-base. And the effects don't stack. Those attributes right there squash that argument.

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Seems easier to just make it an activated ability that affects both the player and friendlies. Don't make it a us or me gameplay element. I don't see why two versions would be necessary.

The big reason I don't like passive buffs is because they are passive. Having things that are activated with obvious penalties makes them a tactical advantage within a team rather than a constant advantage.

Keep in mind that is not as "passive" as you might think. It's an AOE for a reason. Squads have to actively stick together or they aren't recieving those benefits. You can't just turn it on and wander off.

Also, I don't get where you're coming up with the "Two Versions" thing. Yes, the AOE healing has a "direct heal" counter-part, and the ammo regen has the ammo-pack counterpart, but thats really it. And if they wanted to, they could use both at once.

Just like Advanced Targeting in PS1, there WOULD be a cost, but it would be neutral most of the time. You'd see the effect as an additional drain on your stamina reserves when losing power.