Time to Kill(TTK) needs to be increased.

Assist · 2013-02-21, 04:13 PM

I'd assume this is a rather hotly debated topic, but I think with the new SMG's the difference between classes is really being lost. With TTK being as low as it is I feel like I can kill just as efficiently with any class and because of that there's no real specialization in weapons. Maybe that's the intended effect of having all these high fire rate weapons, but I always thought the idea of classes was to differentiate in as many ways as possible.

My basic argument boils down to the game needs to have larger advantages and disadvantages between weapons. For starters it will increase the skill ceiling, because head-shots become more important. It will also lower the pray and spray attitude that it seems a lot of PS2 players have. Players will have to manage their ammo more and in doing so infantry fights will become more strategic. If you know your spray won't down the guy running across the hill 100m away you may instead re-position, it brings more strategy to the game. Giving players time to react to a situation is never a bad thing, as it only makes each side play more responsibly. Personally I feel that the only weapons that have the correct TTK are the shotguns and rocket launchers. The problem I have is how close to that TTK the other automatic weapons are how useless the semi-auto weapons are because of it.

Don't get me wrong here, the classes still have their defined roles because of the other tools they have. But the weapons are really blurring the line between being a support style weapon and a full on assault style weapon. I really love the new SMG's and I don't see them as a bad thing for the game, the problem is I use them on my Light Assault, Infiltrator, and Engineer. The reason is personal preference more than anything, with the TTK difference as small as it is between the SMG's and the Carbines, why shouldn't I use the same gun with all three and therefore be more familiar with my weapon?

NewSith · 2013-02-21, 04:22 PM

Low TTK

Pros:

Infantry weapon balance is achieved more easily, since any OP weapon stands out instantly.
Gunplay becomes more intuitive, rather than concious.
Tactics are promoted for non-twitch players, due to first-sight kill advantage.
Highly aim-skilled players getting a handicap, allowing balancing between the casuals and the competitives.
Aimbot and other weapon-enhancing cheaters getting a handicap.
Attracts modern PC gamers.

Cons:

Weapon functional variety suffers.
A gap between players that use cover and those who do not significantly increases.
Vehicle vs Infantry weapon balance is harder to achieve.
Combat is more chaotic.
Removes the middle class effectiveness. Big groups or proficient solo players dominate. In other words it promotes zerging, due to the nature of it being "just getting one bullet on him each, he doesn't need much".
Makes thinking during combat harder. While it handicaps aim twitch, it promotes quick thinking. Some players are incapable of it ( reasons can be age, lack of experience, lack of the proper type of thinking, etc)

http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/i...vs-cons.96584/

Tatwi · 2013-02-21, 04:27 PM

Would be alright if they fix hit registration as well. I stood 5 feet behind a guy today and got the X for hitting him (with the TMG-50) at least 10 times, but when he turned around and killed me he was at half health. Other times people will drop dead in an instant, without being headshot. It don't make sense!

Heads hit boxes should much be smaller and, for the sake of balance, some weapons (like SMGs and other high rate of fire weapons) should not get a damage bonus for hitting the head. Flack/explosion damage radii should also be decreased a bit, simply because it's far too easy effect people who aren't even being aimed at by the shooter.

Spray and pray will not stop unless ammo starts costing money, because sources of ammo are almost always just a few seconds away.

I agree entirely that the weapons feel the same. I have both TR SMGs and I can't tell them apart, beyond that I wasted 700SC on one that has half the ammo capacity (though I did spend the 100 certs to kick it up to 40 before I bought the new one). The difference in their rate of fire is not noticeable.

Neurotoxin · 2013-02-21, 04:31 PM

I agree with you 100%. I feel TTK should be far slower than it is right now. I feel the game should be about tactically overwhelming the enemy, not rapidly slaying one target and moving to the next one. I agree that the ability for a close range only SMG to outclass other weapons definitely could be an issue, but keep in mind that it is a close range weapon, and catching that player even at medium range (flushing them out with a grenade can facilitate this) puts them at a disadvantage. It feels about the same as when shotguns were introduced, powerful close-range weapons that folks still aren't used to fighting yet.

In terms of rebalancing the game as a whole, I'd double vehicle armor and cut vehicle damage output it in half. For infantry, I'd add a higher degree of customization, letting the player select a shield AND armor AND utility, so they have better survival and get to rely more on gear that accommodates their play style. Infantry weapon damage vs infantry could also be reduced to 75% of what it is now. Additional limits could be put on snipers to preserve their 1HK properties without making them so powerful that the game will just become a sniping headshotfest.

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-21, 04:39 PM

NO

Increasing TTK rewards people who jump around and rely on twitch and punishes people who use tactics and craftiness.

If you dont like infiltrators with stealth - then complain about the cloak. Low TTK helps players of all classes who use their brain before the shooting starts.

Tatwi · 2013-02-21, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

NO

Increasing TTK rewards people who jump around and rely on twitch and punishes people who use tactics and stealth.

Personally, I think your monitor should explode in your face if you jump around like a tool when people are shooting at you, in any game.

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-21, 05:01 PM

Do we really need yet another TTK discussion? These always go exactly the same way every time. This needs to be killed before it turns into another shit throwing contest like the last 5 topics.

Mietz · 2013-02-21, 05:04 PM

You might want to don your flame retardant suit for this one.

OT- Yes, a slight TTK increase would not hurt this game at all.

PS: @Ghoest9, bunnyhopping and "twitch" has zero to do with TTK (theoretical weapon TTK). Your opinion is based on ignorance and repeating annoying memes.

Ghoest9 · 2013-02-21, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Mietz

You might want to don your flame retardant suit for this one.

OT- Yes, a slight TTK increase would not hurt this game at all.

PS: @Ghoest9, bunnyhopping and "twitch" has zero to do with TTK (theoretical weapon TTK). Your opinion is based on ignorance and repeating annoying memes.

Wrong.

1 Long time to kill gives people a chances to turn around and start circle strafing after you start shooting them in the back.

This is true. We all know its true.

2 I never said "bunny hopping". I can tell you for a fact that using my jump jets often saves my life when people are shooting at me. Because it causes many people to miss. And further I can say that i often miss people who are using jump jets.
A longer TTK is just another oppertunity to use JJs.

Try harder lil guy.

MaxDamage · 2013-02-21, 05:13 PM

No it doesn't.
/endthread

EVILPIG · 2013-02-21, 05:14 PM

No. Low TTK is far better. Also, it's good that all classes can be effevtive in combat, yet fullfill their niche. I would like weapons assigned to class. Smgs should be LA only.

Zulthus · 2013-02-21, 05:19 PM

Yeah, low TTK is really boring. It doesn't even matter what weapon you use, there's no noticeable difference in TTK throughout the entire arsenal.

But you might as well stop making threads on it. The game was designed around a low TTK and it won't be changed. Just wait for PS1 F2P like I and many others are.

Assist · 2013-02-21, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

NO

Increasing TTK rewards people who jump around and rely on twitch and punishes people who use tactics and craftiness.

I think the opposite tbh, while you're right about giving players a chance to react by jumping I think you're wrong that twitch players would prefer it more. Twitch skills are more rewarded by low TTK scenarios, which shows in players that are extremely good at twitch combat tend to headshot more often. I also don't see why players jumping is bad in PS2, as bunny-hopping is not possible.

I'm also not calling for a dramatic increase, just enough to make the weapons have more pros/cons.

Also I'm sorry if this has been posted a bunch lately, I haven't seen any lately specifically about TTK. If you guys don't want to debate about it you don't need too. I'm not even talking about nerfing anyone's specific play style, since I'd like to see it across the board.

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Yeah, low TTK is really boring. It doesn't even matter what weapon you use, there's no noticeable difference in TTK throughout the entire arsenal.

But you might as well stop making threads on it. The game was designed around a low TTK and it won't be changed. Just wait for PS1 F2P like I and many others are.

Yeah I know it was designed that way, but I also don't see why it couldn't be changed. The game is not designed around the TTK, more that it's just part of it IMO. I agree that low TTK makes the game boring as well, to me it takes a lot of the strategy out of the game.

Crator · 2013-02-21, 05:28 PM

Every time this subject comes up everyone is like "No, the game's TTK is fine"... So I'll just do as Zulthus said, wait for PS1 to become F2P.

EDIT: Crossing fingers they don't try and put the TTK to PS2 standards in PS1 when they start goofing around with things....

Graywolves · 2013-02-21, 05:29 PM

I'd be happy if there was less instant killing.