"What are your top balance concerns?"

GeoGnome · 2013-10-22, 09:52 PM

So there is the question: What would you like to see balance wise.

My biggest one is that if the lock-on changes are to be applied to the Striker, they should be applied to all of the other lock-on launchers.

KesTro · 2013-10-22, 10:12 PM

It was my understanding they are applied to all other lock-ons. At least that's how it seemed the first week of that patch, haven't used much lock-ons save for A2A just to piss people off. :P I would like to see harasser vs. tank balance looked into, specifically the harasser ES weapons, namely the vulcan. On top of that Zealot still needs looking into, it's not the damage it's the speed boost they get, the strafing in particular.

GreyFrog · 2013-10-22, 10:14 PM

Grounder, Hawk, Nemesis are still fire and forget. If you have your target in view and stop ADS to reload the striker the missiles break lock.

KarrdeBRBU · 2013-10-23, 12:34 AM

Striker needs some fixing (not really nerfing per se). Just reduce the range a touch and make it maintain lock instead of true lock. IE if you lose tracking and fail to reaquire it just follows last known trajectory. Let the Phoenix be the one who can nail ppl behind rocks (at the cost of losing perspective on self and one shot at a time).

Also vulcan needs serious nerfing. DPS is just too high and it massacres everything (and this comes from a harasser driver who decried the previous nerfs)

MGP · 2013-10-23, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by KarrdeBRBU

Striker needs some fixing (not really nerfing per se). Just reduce the range a touch and make it maintain lock instead of true lock. IE if you lose tracking and fail to reaquire it just follows last known trajectory. Let the Phoenix be the one who can nail ppl behind rocks (at the cost of losing perspective on self and one shot at a time).

Also vulcan needs serious nerfing. DPS is just too high and it massacres everything (and this comes from a harasser driver who decried the previous nerfs)

Striker IS "maintain lock" for about a month. Are you living under a rock?

HereticusXZ · 2013-10-23, 02:06 AM

Population skew

Mordelicius · 2013-10-23, 02:33 AM

Overpowered:

Harassers Backseat repair and Armor should be a sidegrade to each and cannot exist together. And there should be a significan Armor reduction (it's a BUGGY not a tank). Currently it's a tank with a Buggy skin and movement.

Harasser advantages (it has no weakness)
- Speed
- Ability to change direction on the fly (making it hard to lead weapon counters against it)
- High Ambush rating (picks vulnerable targets) And who can escape a Harasser when ambushed?
- High Escape rating (avoids ambush easily). There not enough DPS that counter it if is bent on hitting-and-running.
- Rarely flips.
- Avoids AV Mine damage (due to its sheer speed)
- Easily run over players (and not take damage from it)
- Has the DPS of a tank
- Has the Armor of atank
- Two passengers
- Repair Seat
- Can fire from a top of a mountain and not get hit (fiing arc should be changed)

Vulcan (Harasser) - Strong against vehicles, infantry and aircraft. It melts tanks short range and still deliver damage at range. It's basically Basilisk on steroid.

fix: significantly reduce damage against vehicles

Marauder (Harasser) - It's basically an anti-infantry C4 projective.

fix: significantly reduce splash range and damage. Reduce ammo.

Zoe Max - What is a ZOE Max? Zoe Max has the damage mitigation of an NC Max with the Damage buff of a TR Max. And what's the downside? Nothing. The lowered armor is mitigated by damage avoidance due to its ridiculous speed.

I'm just going to copy paste my last post on the ZOE (along with suggested fixes):

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

Yes, the ZOE doesn't really have a downside. Their so-called "downside" can be mitigated by two things:

- stupidly fast movement
- engineer repair

Compared to an NC Max which has a front shield. Let's say for sake of argument, damage mitigation is 50% (with back and side exposed).

A ZOE Max has 100% of the body exposed by due to the strafe speed. Let's again say for argument's sake, it has a similar 50% damage mitigation avoiding shots.

Now you know where this is heading. A Vanu Max can shoot (with high DPS buff), run fast and flank with impunity. While an NC Max has literally 0 DPS. Zero. Zero! So, practically the same survivability/damage mitigation but this thing can shoot at ALL RANGE WITH EASE,
making them ridiculously OP especially (but not limited to) long range, high ground or when they are bunched together. All they have to do is point at any door/cover and blast away. The infantry target won't have any dps counter whatsoever. Rocket launcher? Yeah try to hit a ZOE Max with a rocket at long range. They are already hard to hit at medium to short range as it is due to speed and unpredictable movement.

ZOE Max possible fixes:

1 - I'm also for removing the speed buff altogether and I've posted that many months ago. I addition, remove the extra damage it takes. Make it basically the same as a TR Max with no extra attack rate buff, but the same damage buff.

2 - Another alternative solution would be cooldown/energy use. It's far too spammable. In addition there should be a slight activation/deactivation time (I suggest 2 seconds) so it can't be just toggled on and off.

3 - Another different solution would be a no-repair state when ZOE is active and 5 seconds after it is turned off.

Vanu Infantry Weapons - Especially the SVA88. Vanu weapons are way too hipfire friendly.

Our NC weapons, we have to ADS but we can't move (making us easy targets). If we hipfire, it's inaccurate as hell. Reduce the movement bonuses to Vanu weapons. Their accuracy/no drop/no recoil is enough. All NC has is extra damage on a 2-3 weapons. I've used Gauss Saw and ACX11 for too long to know this

Read Maradine's original Oracle of Death thread to see which weapons are way overboard (mostly Vanu infantry).

AV Mana Turret - The range has to go. It has too much damage at long range. If the range cannot be changed, then the damage curve at long range should skydive.

These guys go to the highest of cliffs. Expose nothing but the nose and spam away. In addition, there should be a deploy timer to these. No resources required but for balancing purpose, it can't just be spam deployed.
If it's destroyed, one can't simply plop down a new one so fast.

Underpowered:

NC Max need a Rail Gun (Mid-long fire infantry supression fire) - I never use myself NC Maxes, but it is painfully obvious, us NC lack mid-long range infantry fire suppression.

Both the TR and VS Max can spam mid-long range attacks to prevent the opposition from moving. The NC Max have to be next to the door, making it very vulnerable to Grenades/C4/Mines/Rocket Launcher or if it's outside the Biolab, Tanks/ESF/Libs.

If you line up 5 rocks versus 5 rocks and put NC and VS/TR behind those rocks, guess who can get to the opposite rocks first? The NC won't get far. We won't be even to peek out of the rocks because we'll be spammed. The NC Max can't do that.

All VS/TR Max have to do is sit on top stairs, or the end of a corridor and stack damage. No infantry or even NC Max will survive. With an engineer repairer beside these Maxes, (in an infantry fight), there are very few cases where they can be taken down. In an organized/controlled enviroment, it's even harder because all angles are normally covered in those situations.

MGP · 2013-10-23, 02:43 AM

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

NC Max need a Rail Gun (Mid-long fire infantry supression fire)

So you want to keep your CQB godmode, while also getting good long-med range option? Don't you think you're asking for too much?
If you want NC to have a long range pistols (yes, pistols. DPS of single arm of TR AI MAX is the same as a pistol), you have to give TR/VS some OMGWTFBBQ instagib close range option.

Edit: also it has been mentioned by Higby what it's the TR MAXes who are "underperforming" and going to be buffed, not NC ones.

Dodgy Commando · 2013-10-23, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by MGP

So you want to keep your CQB godmode, while also getting good long-med range option? Don't you think you're asking for too much?
If you want NC to have a long range pistols (yes, pistols. DPS of single arm of TR AI MAX is the same as a pistol), you have to give TR/VS some OMGWTFBBQ instagib close range option.

Edit: also it has been mentioned by Higby what it's the TR MAXes who are "underperforming" and going to be buffed, not NC ones.

I would gladly give up this 'godmode' you talk about. I never use my NC MAX outside of AA and long-range AV duties. It simply is not fun or useful. I'm sure many enjoy the CQB aspects, but I don't think its worth the cost of the versatility that the other faction MAXes enjoy. If changing this could also appease those who don't like being on the receiving end of the Scatmax too, then everyone's a winner IMO.

I think MAXes in general need looking into, personally. My main issues are ZOE; Fractures vs infantry; and the ineffectiveness beyond short range of the NC MAX (especially the latter).

Also the Vulcan, although I do not face it very often (quit vehicular combat for some time now), seems pretty damn good but I have no valuable input on how to change it. Nor do I want to jump on a nerf train. Maybe leaving it as is and looking into the C85 Modified could be a better idea. I like these specialised roles, but it appears they are either utterly useless or OP (Airhammer).

Finally, although more akin to wishful thinking, crewed MBTs. I have willingly stopped using my Vanguard because of this, despite having spent certs and SC for cosmetics. This is in favour of the Lightning however (when I occasionally do hop into a vehicle).

-e-
Engie AV Turret!!! I confess I've unlocked it, and feel bad for using it in such a cheesy way as has been mentioned. You're too vulnerable to use it in a more conventional manner, and on the other hand you're practically invulnerable using it in the 'cheeky' way. Personally, I can't blame people for using it like this currently.

The design is pretty bad too, tbh. I know I'm no artist, but it looks clunky when compared to the MG Turret. I would look into making it bigger than the MG variant but sleeker than the current iteration, while adding a shield too. You're fighting armour with it, but they can shoot you back with nasty consequences. You are also more likely to use it in open terrain and are therefore more vulnerable to sniper fire. Maybe a headshot shield that goes down after one sniper rifle shot, but regenerates after a set amount of time.

Mastachief · 2013-10-23, 05:58 AM

The striker (and lockons in general) They need a substantial nerf or the counter measures need more potency.

ZOE max, why this is still in the game who knows. Bring the run speed down a touch and completely nerf the strafe.

LOLpod spam, remove the splash damage completely. They did this in ps1 to resolve the same issues that exist in this game.

Fracture, way too powerful especially against infantry.

Vulcan, still too powerful and the other empires have no equivalent.

Marauder, essentially a buffed fury....

Grenade bandolier, not only does it add more spam but coupled with conc grenades it makes any tactical hold impossible. Remove it.

Mordelicius · 2013-10-26, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by MGP

So you want to keep your CQB godmode, while also getting good long-med range option? Don't you think you're asking for too much?
If you want NC to have a long range pistols (yes, pistols. DPS of single arm of TR AI MAX is the same as a pistol), you have to give TR/VS some OMGWTFBBQ instagib close range option.

Edit: also it has been mentioned by Higby what it's the TR MAXes who are "underperforming" and going to be buffed, not NC ones.

First I don't use Maxes at all, but I repair them alot. The difference between NC Max support vs TR/VS Max support is NC Max can't take out their support from Mid-Long range. So when I'm crouched-follow trying to repair the Max as it walks towards the enemy I often get blasted first.

As for the "CQC Godmode", the TR or Vanu wouldn't exchance places with NC, but NC would!

Lastly, underperforming? Is that why the Fracture is finally getting nerfed?

TR Max aren't underperforming at all. It's a misinterpretation of information. TR are far invested farming with Marauder/Vulcan rather waste their time on a TR Max

ChipMHazard · 2013-10-26, 06:33 AM

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

Lastly, underperforming? Is that why the Fracture is finally getting nerfed?

TR Max aren't underperforming at all. It's a misinterpretation of information. TR are far invested farming with Marauder/Vulcan rather waste their time on a TR Max

Popularity is taken into account.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=1

The popularity of both the TR and NC AI MAX is more or less the same. The NC MAX does have a higher KPU than the TR MAX. That probably has to do with the NC MAX being what it is, a CQB killing machine, and being used as such.
If SOE ever decides to make the Scattermax more versatile at the expense of being able to instagib infantry in CQB then it will probably balance out.
But I don't really think the TR MAX is really underperforming overall when compared to the NC MAX, all things considered.

Nur · 2013-10-23, 02:13 AM

They need to change completely the MAX spawn mechanics.

Remove running, make them slower. Rework ZOE Maxes.

Make loadout not changeable after spawn (like tanks)

Make them cost 600 resources, no resurrection from medics, spawn time starting from the moment MAX dies and not from the moment you spawn it.

The MAXES are a big issue in this game.

typhaon · 2013-10-23, 02:32 AM

* ZOE should be scrapped and Vanu MAX given something else entirely. Maybe the ZOE makes them invulnerable to explosive damage for a short time?

* Vulcan-H on Harassers should be definitely be nerfed. In general, I think all faction Harassers are too powerful vs. other vehicles. Even as poor old NC, I think it's cheese that I can solo spawn a Harasser, then snipe Sundys from halfway across the map with the Enforcer... and the generic E540 or whatever is just as much a nightmare.

* Enforcer C85 Modified should be made into a usable ES-secondary.

* Gun balance is getting there, but I think a decent amount of work still needs to be done. It isn't hard to make a list of weapons that seem to be over-performing and under-performing. I think this stems from just not quite having the right feel for proper value of certain stats.

DredVS · 2013-10-23, 03:05 AM

Lock-ons need to be what they suggested months ago on the Roadmap:

Variable lock-on time in relation to distance (benefits high flyers)
Having to keep a target locked on the entire time (no more fire-and-forget)
Rocket speed increased (combats hovering)
Rocket lifespan decreased (benefits high flyers)

I'd say it's more of a rework than a straight-up nerf.

This makes lock-ons a less abusive weapon for zone control, and more of a tool used to target hoverers. If you can do evasive maneuvers, you can enter areas spammed with lock-ons and still get out alive.

If you are going to lolpod hover or zephyr hover, you are going to have a very bad time.