Friendly fire, problem or not?

[Krawanan]

Hey guys,

I think that friendly fire is a great addition to the game, since it makes it alot more real, and you have to be carefull where you shoot.

But i also have a few concerns about this.

How can you see if someone is on your empire in night time? From close it would be pretty easy, but if he's like 200 meters away you see him as an enemy, if FF would be off, you would find out soon enough ofcourse, but it is not.

And my biggest concern:
TROLLS

Aren't there going to be people who like hate an empire and then make a character on that empire just to team kill? Or just trolls who will do this for no reason.

Does anyone share those concerns with me? Or is there already a solution for this? And how did this work out in Planetside 1 ?

[Whip Nailed it]

i don't think so

team killing normally happens when ppl are after vehicles etc, but spawning your own vehicle should help prevent this

[Baneblade]

FF must be in. There are times when you just have to TK someone.

As for night time... there is a thing called positive identification. If you fire on a friendly, you not only get the grief and hate tell, but you reveal yourself to the actual enemy and get wtfpwned.

If you can't tell if someone is an enemy, hold your fire.

Radar might reveal friendly units.

[Sirisian]

There will be a grief system. It stops players from killing friendlies or not watching their fire. Worked in Planetside 1. Many people have explained methods for exponential grief for new accounts, but it sounds like the devs already have it all figured out.

[Krawanan]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

There will be a grief system. It stops players from killing friendlies or not watching their fire. Worked in Planetside 1. Many people have explained methods for exponential grief for new accounts, but it sounds like the devs already have it all figured out.

How does this grief system actually work(sorry never played PS1)

[MasterCalaelen]

Originally Posted by Krawanan

How does this grief system actually work(sorry never played PS1)

Damaging friendly assets (team members, vehicles or equipment affiliated with your Empire) caused you to get grief points. At certain set levels you would receive penalties, such as not being able to fire your weapons or vehicles you are operating having their maximum speed reduced. If you continued to gain grief points even with weapons locked, you would eventually get banned.

The grief system did have it's flaws though, as teammembers hitting you while they were driving a vehicle would cause you grief points and bailing from a vehicle that than continued and hit a friendly asset also caused you grief points.

[Krawanan]

Originally Posted by MasterCalaelen

Damaging friendly assets (team members, vehicles or equipment affiliated with your Empire) caused you to get grief points. At certain set levels you would receive penalties, such as not being able to fire your weapons or vehicles you are operating having their maximum speed reduced. If you continued to gain grief points even with weapons locked, you would eventually get banned.

The grief system did have it's flaws though, as teammembers hitting you while they were driving a vehicle would cause you grief points and bailing from a vehicle that than continued and hit a friendly asset also caused you grief points.

Ok that's clear, but what if like after two years of playing you had killed like 2 team members by accident each month, and also did some friendly damage by accident each month too. Wouldn't you have alot of grief points then which you don't really deserve since it were all just accidents?

[MasterCalaelen]

Originally Posted by Krawanan

Ok that's clear, but what if like after two years of playing you had killed like 2 team members by accident each month, and also did some friendly damage by accident each month too. Wouldn't you have alot of grief points then which you don't really deserve since it were all just accidents?

Apologies, I forgot to mention that grief points would slowly dissipate over time, so if you accidently obtained some grief points, they would go away if you played carefully for a day or so.

The harsher penalties such as weapons lock also do not occur from damaging or killing a few soldiers, you would need to purposely be damaging friendliess exessively in order to hit such levels of grief.

[HenchAnt]

Originally Posted by Krawanan

Ok that's clear, but what if like after two years of playing you had killed like 2 team members by accident each month, and also did some friendly damage by accident each month too. Wouldn't you have alot of grief points then which you don't really deserve since it were all just accidents?

Grief points decrease slowly over time. So going on a rampage with a grenade launcher gets you grief locked pretty fast, while hitting/ramming a friendly now and then stays unpunished.

For a better description check the Planetside Universe wiki on Grief.

[VaderShake]

Originally Posted by MasterCalaelen

Damaging friendly assets (team members, vehicles or equipment affiliated with your Empire) caused you to get grief points. At certain set levels you would receive penalties, such as not being able to fire your weapons or vehicles you are operating having their maximum speed reduced. If you continued to gain grief points even with weapons locked, you would eventually get banned.

The grief system did have it's flaws though, as teammembers hitting you while they were driving a vehicle would cause you grief points and bailing from a vehicle that than continued and hit a friendly asset also caused you grief points.

How persistant was the griefing system in PS1? Did points total up and eventually you were banned or were their averages that you had to stay below? If there are averages I could understand that but from what you describe it seems like points keep adding up until your banned?

Im not sure I am a fan of a "system" determining if your a team killer or not? Some times things happen, stray bullets/vehicle fire, blind corneres, un-intended collisions, I don't know how a system would be able to decern from friendly fire and stupidity by someone running infront of your gun when your already engaged and you getting penalized for it.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of friendly fire in FPS to be sure I just think to have a sysyem that potentially lacks commons sense penalize people seems a bit counter what PS2 seems to be all about, people working together.

I guess it's something new to expirience, whens the beta again??? Grrr...haha.

[Blue Sam]

Originally Posted by VaderShake

How persistant was the griefing system in PS1? Did points total up and eventually you were banned or were their averages that you had to stay below? If there are averages I could understand that but from what you describe it seems like points keep adding up until your banned?

The more you killed friendlies, the higher your multiplier went. Then, when you stopped killing friendlies, both the multiplier and the grief points declined over time.

Im not sure I am a fan of a "system" determining if your a team killer or not? Some times things happen, stray bullets/vehicle fire, blind corneres, un-intended collisions, I don't know how a system would be able to decern from friendly fire and stupidity by someone running infront of your gun when your already engaged and you getting penalized for it.

You didn't get any actual penalty (besides a message in the corner telling you that killing friendlies is bad) until you got up to ridiculously high numbers of grief points. We're not talking a couple of people jumping in front of your tank here, we're talking wiping out a significant proportion of the friendly force. You might be able to get it accidentally by dropping an orbital strike on a base just as a large friendly outfit max crashed it, but that's about it.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of friendly fire in FPS to be sure I just think to have a sysyem that lacks commons sense penalize people seems a bit counter what PS2 seems to be all about, people working together.

Hope I've cleared it up a bit there.

[MasterCalaelen]

PlanetSide 1 also had friendly fire, which is a must in order to prevent people from blindly firing at anything that moves. The grief system will prevent any serious abuse of friendly fire, though in all my years playing PlanetSide I've never experienced any serious issues with people team-killing or otherwise griefing.

[Krawanan]

Originally Posted by MasterCalaelen

PlanetSide 1 also had friendly fire, which is a must in order to prevent people from blindly firing at anything that moves. The grief system will prevent any serious abuse of friendly fire, though in all my years playing PlanetSide I've never experienced any serious issues with people team-killing or otherwise griefing.

Yeah i understand, but remember, planetside 1 was pretty much a cult game with a really nice and tight community.

Planetside 2 is going to be F2P and will probably have a wider variety of players. which could also contain cod/bf3 players. And tehy sure love to TK if they get bored

[GoldDragon]

Originally Posted by Krawanan

Yeah i understand, but remember, planetside 1 was pretty much a cult game with a really nice and tight community.

Planetside 2 is going to be F2P and will probably have a wider variety of players. which could also contain cod/bf3 players. And tehy sure love to TK if they get bored

Just sayin', but if there are any original PS vets involved in any way, which there will be plenty of, I can almost guarantee they (along with the devs) will be helping police the griefers.

Example: Even in PS1, there are dicks right? Well, if that dummy shoots the wrong guy for the wrong reason he could have anywhere from 2-3 guys up to an entire platoon hunting him down to keep him off their teammate. I'm willing to bet this level of dedication to your unit is going to find it's way into any outfit with original Vets in them.

[Otleaz]

No matter how bad the griefing is in a game, it is worth it to have friendly fire.

Friendly fire is core to having a good game.