Israel

[AshOck]

Originally Posted by Neurotoxin

I disagree. All people have a right to self-determination within their own country. When it comes to imperialism, the aggressor is ALWAYS wrong. If one million soldiers from a foreign nation were deposited in Canada to wage war and try to take it over, how are they in the right in any way? How would the citizens of Canada be wrong to fight them off?

That's gotta be the worst analogy to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict I've ever heard.

Neither Palestinians nor **** had a country when the conflict began.
The land in dispute was a part of the Ottoman empire for more than six centuries
and after that under British mandate from 1923-1948.
When the British left both **** and Palestinians had well established communities living side by side
and there was no formal agreement of how to divide the land. Obviously, war ensued.

So you see, it wasn't 1 million foreign nation soldiers against 35 million Canadians in their own established country.
It was more like 600k **** without a country against 1 million Palestinians without a country + six other Arab nations as allies.

[Mutant]

Originally Posted by AshOck

Neither Palestinians nor **** had a country when the conflict began.
The land in dispute was a part of the Ottoman empire for more than six centuries
and after that under British mandate from 1923-1948.
When the British left both **** and Palestinians had well established communities living side by side
and there was no formal agreement of how to divide the land. Obviously, war ensued.

The problem largely comes from Britain promising the land to both Arabs and **** for helping them in WWI.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMahon...Correspondence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour...ration_of_1917

The British did not just leave, they were driven out by terrorists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

[Figment]

Originally Posted by elfailo

I wonder how things would have turned out if Jesus had been Venezuelan.

Depends. In which time period?

Option A: During Roman times: religion would have been trapped by indigenous tribes in the jungle. We'd probably still worship Wodan.

Option B: During Incan times: he'd probably have been sacrificed to Quetzecoatl or some other local deity, or at the very least enslaved for the good of the empire. And if not that, he'd probably DEMAND sacrifices done the RIGHT way. >.> We'd probably still worship Wodan.

Option C: After arrival and conquests by the Spanish? Depends, as a local or as European immigrant? As the first: Would be burned by inquisitors or die of some European flue if indigenous. Would otherwise reform the Spanish Pantheon paganism (neither Christianity nor Islam would have existed and **** would have remained a populace without a nation of their own after the Assyrians stormed in).


Any options I missed?

Originally Posted by Warborn

The foundations of many of our formerly Imperial colonies are built on the mass graves of the indigenous populations. Imperialism royally fucked the situation the natives of North America, Africa, and elsewhere. As people who don't belong to those demographics we can kick back and relish in how nice it was for Britain or whoever to pave over some other nations with their own culture, but what if the Empire had cooperated and been something other than dominant and inhumane toward the people they conquered? Maybe now there'd be modern nations whose roots lie in the Cree, Lakota, Ojibwe, and similar peoples. Who is to say whether such a scenario would have been better or worse for the nations as a whole. Certainly it would have been better for the natives.

Well you can look at how that worked between trade with Japan during the isolationist period. Only the Dutch were allowed to trade with Japan, because the Portuguese tried to convert the populace.

[Vreki]

Originally Posted by Figment

Depends. In which time period?

Option A: During Roman times: religion would have been trapped by indigenous tribes in the jungle. We'd probably still worship Wodan.

Option B: During Incan times: he'd probably have been sacrificed to Quetzecoatl or some other local deity, or at the very least enslaved for the good of the empire. And if not that, he'd probably DEMAND sacrifices done the RIGHT way. >.> We'd probably still worship Wodan.

Option C: After arrival and conquests by the Spanish? Depends, as a local or as European immigrant? As the first: Would be burned by inquisitors or die of some European flue if indigenous. Would otherwise reform the Spanish Pantheon paganism (neither Christianity nor Islam would have existed and **** would have remained a populace without a nation of their own after the Assyrians stormed in).


Any options I missed?

E: The lack of Jesus would have little consequence, since another religion would just rise to the top and claim monopoly on the truth.
The history of the Christian church shows quite nicely how the message is adapted to the goals of those in power. It would have worked just the same if The Flying Spaghetti Monster had been the front figure.