Please remove Vehicle seat swapping. - Page 22

maradine · 2012-07-23, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Revanmug

I keep seeing : BF3 doesn't have teamplay blablabla... Well of course, there aren't any tools for the common people for it. Restriction isn't what make teamplay possible. It is those social tools that help communication that will make teamplay a possibility.

360 BF3 has built-in inter-squad VOIP. It is extremely serviceable, and makes vehicle management a breeze.

Redshift · 2012-07-23, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Flaropri

If it doesn't, perhaps it should? Not like you can't increase the timer and resource cost to make it much more viable for 3-people to support constant lib play over 2.

If the resources actually meant you couldn't afford to pull a vehicle each "life" (assuming you don't smash it straight into a tree in 5 seconds) then they would force you to footzerg in a map designed for vehicles... that's bad design. So i'm sticking with the idea and unless you're blowing your lib up as soon as you pull it, 2 of you will easily be able to keep them coming.

Flaropri · 2012-07-23, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Redshift

If the resources actually meant you couldn't afford to pull a vehicle each "life" (assuming you don't smash it straight into a tree in 5 seconds) then they would force you to footzerg in a map designed for vehicles... that's bad design. So i'm sticking with the idea and unless you're blowing your lib up as soon as you pull it, 2 of you will easily be able to keep them coming.

Did I say Vehicle? I thought I said Liberator.

There are multiple resources tied to different vehicles. Liberators share resources with some vehicles, but their spawn timers are their own, and several vehicles use entirely different resources... and if you have 3 players, you SHOULD be able to pull Libs consistently for at least a decent amount of time assuming you aren't terrible.

Obviously, if your crew is skilled and can consistently keep Libs alive than that would extend the time... and if you constantly crash in the first 60 seconds than likewise you'll have issues even with 3-crew (assuming the other 2 would stick to it in spite of you crashing and/or the battle being extremely hostile to air).

The trick is balancing it so that 2-crew Libs are having enough problems with resources and/or timers that they'd want a 3rd both to increase the Libs individual capabilities and to have consistent Lib spawn capability. It would still be viable to use 2-crew libs, but it wouldn't replace 3-crew libs as the optimal load-out.

And yes, I do think that if you die fast enough often enough (and not just within 5 seconds, but I couldn't guess at appropriate times for this since the game isn't balanced yet) you should lose your vehicle privileges for a time, and either suck it up and get in a transport or use Gal/Squad spawns, or point out to your team-mates that "hey, maybe we should conserve resources more so we don't have to go on foot."

Revanmug · 2012-07-23, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

360 BF3 has built-in inter-squad VOIP. It is extremely serviceable, and makes vehicle management a breeze.

Amusing that PC doesn't have that... so amusing.

PC: lead platform of BF3! ... I feel like blasting console but I'll keep that elsewhere.

Landtank · 2012-07-23, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Flaropri

Did I say Vehicle? I thought I said Liberator.

Liberator is a vehicle, is it not? So his argument still applies completely.

Flaropri · 2012-07-23, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Landtank

Liberator is a vehicle, is it not? So his argument still applies completely.

No, it doesn't. Not being able to spawn a specific vehicle as an individual doesn't mean that everyone will have to Footzerg, it means they use different vehicles, or get into someone else's vehicle.

Ranik Ortega · 2012-07-23, 03:09 PM

Timer + Some resource cost = you pulling a vehicle
Extra mods and shit = Resource cost

Regardless I think this may be getting off topic

maradine · 2012-07-23, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Revanmug

Amusing that PC doesn't have that... so amusing.

PC: lead platform of BF3! ... I feel like blasting console but I'll keep that elsewhere.

The short answer is probably that it's free with the platform and they already have all the design patterns for implementation in their pocket. I was also surprised when I heard the PC implementation didn't have anything.

The PS2 VOIP is from the same people that did the EVE VOIP, which almost no one uses. I consider that more of a failure of the interface and inertia than a knock against the engine, but we'll know very shortly.

BorisBlade · 2012-07-23, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by maradine

Please keep vehicle swapping.

Solo practitioners will not be able to deal with two threat classes at once.

Rarely do you have air and ground on ya at once, if ya do you are dead most likely anyway. What he and the rest of us mean is if you are, for example, fighting a tank then an aircraft comes in. You can magically instantly switch to AA meaning your main gun might as well just have an AA alt mode on it, there is no difference. You can instantly switch and take out the air then instantly switch back to the main gun for anything else. Same with any vehicle or weapon combo. You are a one man army. You have all the guns and can drive on top of that.

Whether you can do em at the same time is not really an issue, its whether you have the ability to instantly switch at any time to both AA/AV (or AI if you choose). Thats lame, and a huge flaw in those other standard boring FPS games. PS1 was the first to finally get it right with fixed vehicle slots and loading. Its really sad to see em keep sliding back into old sub standard gameplay mechanics. They should be going forward like they do with the improved infantry gun mechanics, and then building on forward with what PS1 had pioneered and finally got right. Battlefield is the old way, we dont need to copy that dinosaur.

Honestly this is far more important than enter/exit animations. Although its all part of the same thing. We should get the animations and fixed slots all in one patch.

Klockan · 2012-07-23, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

PS1 was the first to finally get it right with fixed vehicle slots and loading. Its really sad to see em keep sliding back into old sub standard gameplay mechanics.

Nah, they just copied what was popular at the time (Halo, which incidentally is older than the BF series). Now they just continue with that tradition.

Katanauk · 2012-07-23, 11:43 PM

I don't mind the whole instantly magically appear in seat of vehicle thing . . . but seat swapping is just poor form. I hope that rubbish gets removed.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-07-23, 11:48 PM

There's nothing inherently wrong with a one man army. The issue at hand is that the three man army that already enjoys a numerical advantage over the one man army thinks that there numbers should be an auto win. Tough cookies, if the sum of a group's parts isn't up to the task of taking out one man your group is full of bads.

Ranik Ortega · 2012-07-23, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by GreatMazinkaise

There's nothing inherently wrong with a one man army. The issue at hand is that the three man army that already enjoys a numerical advantage over the one man army thinks that there numbers should be an auto win. Tough cookies, if the sum of a group's parts isn't up to the task of taking out one man your group is full of bads.

Oh please. That's an awful example.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with say an HA guy noticing a single man tank firing his AA gun in the air and wanting to exploit the vulnerability to put a couple of rounds into that tank without the enemy instant switching to the driver seat and blowing the shit out of him.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with say an aircraft trying to put a couple of rounds into the tanks on the ground without having multiple tanks just stop and switch to AA almost as effectively as a 2 man tank.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with a Mosq/Reav/Scyt chasing down a liberator bombing ground troops trying to get a few shots into the rear of the liberator before the bomber instant switches to the tail gun.

FFS don't try and create bull stories about multi man vehicles fearing for their lives versus solo vehicles. It makes you look silly. If they are going to under man a multi person vehicles their needs to be some downside other than having to stop and instant switch. A 4 second timer than can be certed down to 3-2 seconds is such a downside that doesn't screw over people who lose their gunner mid trip. Make a compromise not retarded strawmen.

GreatMazinkaise · 2012-07-24, 12:35 AM

The downside is lack of mobility, something that really sucks for AA. As is I predict the MBTs will be better AA than the Lightning in the open due to the fact that they can move and shoot. You should always assume that a vehicle is fully manned and not worry about attempting to exploit its vulnerabilities.

The more likely happening is that seat switching takes a couple seconds and gets certed down to instantaneous. Also, why the hell should I make a compromise? I'm not making the game or trying to please any of you... and there's no reason the developers would give a lick one way or the other what any of us say.

Ranik Ortega · 2012-07-24, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by GreatMazinkaise

The downside is lack of mobility, something that really sucks for AA. As is I predict the MBTs will be better AA than the Lightning in the open due to the fact that they can move and shoot. You should always assume that a vehicle is fully manned and not worry about attempting to exploit its vulnerabilities.

The more likely happening is that seat switching takes a couple seconds and gets certed down to instantaneous. Also, why the hell should I make a compromise? I'm not making the game or trying to please any of you... and there's no reason the developers would give a lick one way or the other what any of us say.

A lack of mobility means nothing when you are the guy popping over that ridge to fire a missile and can only get one shot off before the tank is active and hunting him. A lack of mobility means nothing when that bomber switches to tail gun after a few measly rounds into the tail. A lack of mobility means nothing to that aircraft as he is not likely to finish off the tank in one pass and is about to suffer near instant revenge AA fire.

You should always try to fully man a vehicle and not worry about being able to exploit and instantaneously switch seats.

If you are ok with 2 seconds then why not leave it at that being the lowest it can go?