Command chat, and why it really needs to be changed. - Page 6

xWarMachine · 2013-01-13, 05:28 PM

Personally I don't see the issue here. If you take the time and listen to what was said to BUZZ in the beginning of the conversation maybe you would understand why he was raging lol...
Either way I couldn't care less.
Enclave is an amazing outfit to play with. Keep up the publicity guys it's helping us as always lol

Eliphas · 2013-01-13, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Saintlycow

For a while, I used to hate on Buzz. He does say questionable things, and i'm not to big of a fan of that.

This thread has made me realize a few things. As humans, we seem to be extremely judgmental. I mean, look at all the buzzcut hate. Tons of people bitch at him because he said something offensive. You're hating on a person because you took something they said out of context, and then remained adamant because you wish to see something wrong. On the internet, you don't really know the motive behind many things. For example, anyone could post "I hate Mexicans". Most of us would see this as racist, and wrong. However, the person who wrote this could have just had his dog run over by a person of Latin descent, and was angry enough to lose all self control and write that statement. Does that make the outburst any less wrong? No, it's still racist. Does this mean that we should forever label this person as a racist? No, because we don't actually know them. We don't know if this is their true self, on the thoughts of someone who is emotionally compromised.

This goes for defending a person as well. How many of you really know buzzcut? Hamma? The Smed? I don't know every intricate detail of their life, just like most of us with buzz or the Smed. Or Hamma (Jennyboo exempt

) It no longer becomes a debate about the person in question, but a battle to defend one's honor of being right or wrong.

We don't know what makes people do things, so don't go leaping to judge or defend them the instant something controversial happens. Maybe Buzz is all that people make him out to be. Maybe his mother has a grave illness, and this puts him on edge. Smed may actually be a jerk. He could have also had a shit day at the office (people hating on magriders and EQ : Next)

I don't know, you don't know, so don't go off half cocked.

Instead of instantly labeling people, take the time to tell them that what they said was offensive. When people are in a bad mood, they usually don't realize mistakes immediately. Give them the heads up. They will realize the errors of their ways

TL : DR - Humanity as a whole need to be less judgemental. As a community, we make ourselves to be mature, but we really need to step our game up, everyone.

The problem with this is that people should know the limit of their actions. Just saying its ok for anyone to lose their shit and its ok because their dog died is crap. If you let some one in the lime light get away with being an "asshat" then that shows everyone else that its ok. If you hold a cinder-block over your head and let go its going to smash you in your dome. You agreed to a legal agreement now where does it says: "In case of death of loved one, nerd rage or wanting to just be a prick all any and agreement made with SOE is null and void." This is a issue on a deeper level of society, stop supporting the constant shedding of personal accountability.

PS. Go huge your unicorn and climb your rain bows...

Natir · 2013-01-13, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

To be fair, I've never heard of that guy before. I don't even think he visits this forum, nor do I think he was a ps1 guy. I'm willing to actually brush that off as an edge-case from one of many newer cod/bf3 guys.

So, someone can openly threaten to kill someone if homicide were legal is perfectly fine but someone calling people "bad" and "turd" is way worse? But, because you "know" Buzz but do not "know" that other guy, what he said doesn't matter at all... I like your logic.

alexdxvi · 2013-01-13, 06:12 PM

So much hate on BCP, some of it is reasonable, well thought out and well constructed criticism but most of it is completely unwarranted and unnecessary.

But hey when you lead one of the largest and most active outfits in PS2 I guess that's what happens.
I just wish that you people that insult him and his outfit would try it out for a week before you start talking shit about it, because The Enclave is filled with a lot of great players and can be a lot of fun.

Saintlycow · 2013-01-13, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Eliphas

The problem with this is that people should know the limit of their actions. Just saying its ok for anyone to lose their shit and its ok because their dog died is crap. If you let some one in the lime light get away with being an "asshat" then that shows everyone else that its ok. If you hold a cinder-block over your head and let go its going to smash you in your dome. You agreed to a legal agreement now where does it says: "In case of death of loved one, nerd rage or wanting to just be a prick all any and agreement made with SOE is null and void." This is a issue on a deeper level of society, stop supporting the constant shedding of personal accountability.

Sorry if I came across as accepting of dumb actions. What I was trying to (and seemingly failed ) to get at was that we shouldn't eternally judge people by a handful of their actions. It's never okay to lose your shit, but we have to also realize the circumstanced that caused this. I didn't really manage to get this across, but what I was trying to say is that you shouldn't lose your shit everyday, but once and a while you can use it as an excuse / justification. You should still be punished, but I feel we hold singular events far to highly when judging people.

I'm not sure, but that whole 47% thing that Romney said might support my point?

I'm so screwed for my English exam.

Originally Posted by Eliphas

PS. Go huge your unicorn and climb your rain bows...

Are you talking about my faction, or my idealistic view of the world.
Vanu will return, and reward his loyal subjects with unicorns and rainbows. It is known

Eliphas · 2013-01-13, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Saintlycow

Sorry if I came across as accepting of dumb actions. What I was trying to (and seemingly failed ) to get at was that we shouldn't eternally judge people by a handful of their actions. It's never okay to lose your shit, but we have to also realize the circumstanced that caused this. I didn't really manage to get this across, but what I was trying to say is that you shouldn't lose your shit everyday, but once and a while you can use it as an excuse / justification. You should still be punished, but I feel we hold singular events far to highly when judging people.

I'm not sure, but that whole 47% thing that Romney said might support my point?

I'm so screwed for my English exam.

Are you talking about my faction, or my idealistic view of the world.
Vanu will return, and reward his loyal subjects with unicorns and rainbows. It is known

To answer your question it would be your view point. I am sorry but the world does not work like as you described. Just like the cinder-block example your going to take one to the grape. The block in not going to say move. And being given a get out of a mistake I made card is not going to help you make better choices in the long run because in the back of your mind that one time you got away with it so maybe this time also. Its called personal accountability not my bad bro. I understand how everyone from the Enclave is upset about this and I hold no hate for ANY of them but its not ok...for anyone.

Saintlycow · 2013-01-13, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Eliphas

To answer your question it would be your view point. I am sorry but the world does not work like as you described.

Of course it doesn't. IMO, thats what we, as a society, need to srtive for.

Also, I'm not in the enclave

Figment · 2013-01-13, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Natir

So, someone can openly threaten to kill someone if homicide were legal is perfectly fine but someone calling people "bad" and "turd" is way worse? But, because you "know" Buzz but do not "know" that other guy, what he said doesn't matter at all... I like your logic.

Maybe you should not read so selectively, P0intman said something else as well and never actually acquited him.

Originally Posted by P0intman

it speaks just as bad about that specific player as buzzcut being buzzcut does about buzzcut.

What surprises me is that anyone would even bother to even try to put up a defense for this sort of behaviour (and some even think it's good publicity). The only players that would come to join you after this sort of publicity is the type of players without standards or ethics.

If you think that's a good thing and this is the type of behaviour that entertains you or the type of abuse you're actively looking for as part of your leisure time, then you're part of one screwed up, degenerative society, not to mention have some screws loose yourself...

I don't care if a player has 0 or 300 people to follow him regarding access to command chat. All I care about is whether the input is good and constructive and the output is understandable and motivating: ie. is the guy a good leader. And every good PS1 CR5 here knows that as well: the size of an outfit doesn't determine the quality of information and quality and speed of response, nor does a larger size improve the quality of its officers (especially if they get way too many officers by abusing the system to get OSes, for instance).

Usualy the contrary. Usualy, large outfits are a severe liability. Especially when they think they are big enough to dominate and take over command. Then they just ruin the empire's long term success.

p0intman · 2013-01-13, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Natir

So, someone can openly threaten to kill someone if homicide were legal is perfectly fine but someone calling people "bad" and "turd" is way worse? But, because you "know" Buzz but do not "know" that other guy, what he said doesn't matter at all... I like your logic.

Do not put words in my mouth.

I am saying this, and this alone: you enclave guys are taking flak for defending buzz, because he is proven with a history of bigotry, racism, and harrassment ingame and out of game. That is wrong, no matter who does it. Buzzcut is just as much of a problem as whoever Invis0 is, but pinning whatever Invis0 says on a community that is not his outfit or him (ie, anyone not defending BCP, apparently) in specific does not work.

I KNOW Buzzcut. I used to run with TE when they were NC on Emerald. I cooperated with you all a lot. You cannot ever possibly defend him in front of me and expect to walk away cleanly, because I have a very long memory and know how history has gone. You cannot pin it on anyone but TE and BCP in specific, because it is reflective of you and your outfit.

Likewise, you cannot pin whatever Invis0 says on anyone but Invis0 or his outfit. I am not defending him, I am however questioning if he even pays attention to this forum or even qualifies as a PS vet, and thus reflecting on the rest of us is a bit of an overstatement.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2013-01-13, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

If you think that's a good thing and this is the type of behaviour that entertains you or the type of abuse you're actively looking for as part of your leisure time, then you're part of one screwed up, degenerative society, not to mention have some screws loose yourself...

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Regrettably, with this in mind, I now understand why The Enclave is so popular, and why "The Enclave" type groups are so prolific throughout the world.

Originally Posted by Figment

I don't care if a player has 0 or 300 people to follow him regarding access to command chat. All I care about is whether the input is good and constructive and the output is understandable and motivating: ie. is the guy a good leader. And every good PS1 CR5 here knows that as well: the size of an outfit doesn't determine the quality of information and quality and speed of response, nor does a larger size improve the quality of its officers (especially if they get way too many officers by abusing the system to get OSes, for instance).

Usualy the contrary. Usualy, large outfits are a severe liability. Especially when they think they are big enough to dominate and take over command. Then they just ruin the empire's long term success.

And politicians are the least suited people to run a democracy. But since someone has to do it... and I have neither time nor energy, who else is going to step up?

Figment · 2013-01-13, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by StumpyTheOzzie

Unfortunately, I agree with you. Regrettably, with this in mind, I now understand why The Enclave is so popular, and why "The Enclave" type groups are so prolific throughout the world.

Just saying, there was only one troll-outfit on Werner NC: CuRsE. A mini-outfit who's members were generally shunned, mocked or otherwise ignored by the fast majority of players. And no, not all CuRsE players were equally anti-social.

Everyone else had a bit higher standards, some outfits would camp, others would not. Of course there were clashes between individuals on /c, but they never reached the level of idiocy I saw on Gemini (let alone BCP). If you look at BHO and Blue Lions (two zergish outfits comparable to TE in size, not in structure nor attitude), both BHO and BL had some quality officers (despite the surplus of less contributive "we just want them to have the OS" CR5s).

When we joined Gemini, we found Gemini /c to be...

Well...

...everything we feared it would be, despite of the decent folks who apparently had been swamped by the totally rude, anti-social and incompetents for quite some time. Especially in the late game and even more since the Markov/Emerald merger. Unfortunately, a very different server (command) culture existed on Gemini and it clashed badly with the more civil European culture. I've been told the Emerald and Markov gaming cultures kinda clashed as well in some empires. And no, I'm not even talking about actual real-life cultures like the Markov CN (who literally clashed with Markov US to the point of TKing). Note, the Markov CN who came to play on Werner were extremely polite and civil people. So I know who to blame: "gtfo our server you 300 ping C****s!", those swearing, biggot ****s.

Took quite some time to straighten Gemini command out a bit (Werner pretty much tried to take charge along with the cooperative US outfits). But we never did get it to the standards of NC Werner because of the severe increase of wanton disorder - typically through deliberate and selfish sabotaging of other people's efforts to coordinate ((counter-)globalling after votes had been passed for targets, random bigot and insult-globals, anti-European xenophobia and namecalling (obviously fostering the anti-Republican US sentiment), that sort of thing: stuff that hardly happened on Werner in a year, happened daily or at least several times a week on Gemini).

Command culture develops differently on every server, per empire, depending on the dominant cultures and players in it. You could tell that the PS1 system wasn't made for the long term, since everyone would eventually get in there and eventually at such a rapid pace (due to the CEP increase per cap), that people didn't adapt to its culture anymore.

For PS2, it's good that outfits and squads have to select some players to get in the chat, though I wouldn't mind a bit of a hierarchy so a few more could get their say other than the squad and platoon leaders.

Oryon22 · 2013-01-13, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by xWarMachine

Personally I don't see the issue here. If you take the time and listen to what was said to BUZZ in the beginning of the conversation maybe you would understand why he was raging lol...
Either way I couldn't care less.
Enclave is an amazing outfit to play with. Keep up the publicity guys it's helping us as always lol

How many "dagger actuals" is that?

Tatwi · 2013-01-14, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Natir

So, someone can openly threaten to kill someone if homicide were legal is perfectly fine but someone calling people "bad" and "turd" is way worse? But, because you "know" Buzz but do not "know" that other guy, what he said doesn't matter at all... I like your logic.

Wow, you managed to find yourself one heck of an epic straw man argument there, Natir. Congratulations, you've won the Internet!

The point of this thread: The person ranting in the video clearly broke the rules laid out in the EULA of Planetside 2.

It doesn't matter who does such things or why they do them, those things are simply not allowed to be done. If one can't play by the rules, one should be removed from the game. But you knew that.

Eduard Khil · 2013-01-14, 03:53 AM

Hah, Buzz cannot afford to be a failure again, this might actually contribute to his "wanna be" elitist attitude and rage tantrums, no self respecting elitist hires newbs by the bunch, not even to make them meatshields.

The enclave failed in WoW attempting to go toe to toe with actual pros in the most prestigious of all servers, Illidan, they failed and recognized they were over their head, much drama ensued but at the end the other true elitist guilds just mocked them out of the server and WoW itself.

That being said, for anyone thinking he has some sort of elitist attitude, he is just a rager, met plenty in my life.

You guys would have never lasted more than 10 seconds back in the 90's when gaming was an actual nightmare and a shithole, Buzz only does what he learned there, people who dedicated themselves to competetion were absolute assholes and trolls, alot of them raged endlessly as well.

Look at the reddit post itself, SOE's CEO rambling about a clan one of his employees belongs to? LOL, talk about some mayor shitstorm, this happened 4 months ago, how I missed this whole melodrama episode is beyond me.

You can always count on a Goon to stir shit up, some things never change.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-7-bi...online-gaming/

I was part and source for 3 of them, with old gamers (specially the competetive ones) comes alot of drama and ape-like behavior, I would warn SOE not to get themselves in too deep when they see those moves, you might end up being tricked into saying stuff you will later regret as was the case about Malorn and the enclave.

Timealude · 2013-01-14, 11:12 AM

Im glad to know that the VS on mattherson can make him rage so much like this...

Hayabusa 4 Life!