we need to see the scat max stats. ( devs please read) - Page 17

Chewy · 2013-03-30, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by snafus

The Expendables (2010) HD Terry Crew AA-12 Shotgun Complete Montage. MANIMAL!!!!! - YouTube

Lets ask the poor south american military guys how they feel about scatt balance.

Ah the AA12 with a 20 shot drum mag. A thing of beauty that weapon is. It still has nothing on this gem though.

Meecrob · 2013-03-30, 05:16 PM

Most of what im about to say has probably been allready said, but ill give my 2 cents.
I will admit the scatter max is one of the biggest strengths the NC has, but it has a reload factor the other factions do not really have to deal with and as stated it's range is very limited. People scoffed at the 8 meter comment, but i think this is about the range were looking at for real effectiveness.

When it's all said and done, it is true that the NC max seems to be the only one that's really effective at it's job. Namely breaking chokepoint situations. But i would rather see a buff for the other 2 maxes than to see the only effective one nerfed to being just another slow infantry aswell.

Lastly, i would like to ask, how do people see this nerf? A damage reduction? I'm sorry but it does not make sence to me that when you, as an infantry, are being hit pointblank with a dual shotgun should not die.

Chewy · 2013-03-30, 06:01 PM

I have no idea how to balance shotguns to make them fair against other weapon types when they are a weapon made to specialize for one thing. It kinda goes against the entire reason to specialize into an area if it wont give you an edge for doing so.

You either end up with a god gun (USAS12 with frag and the M26Dart for BF3 before they got nerfed/fixed as an example) or something that isn't worth using at all. It is VERY rare for a shotgun to be balanced and for a while I thought that the semi-auto versions where damn near there. But then I found the weapon stat spreadsheet and seen something horrid.

EVERY SHOTGUN HAS THE SAME STATS!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...owsperpage=250

The only things that differ is travel time, reload speed, ROF, bullet drop (VS only), and the pellet counts for pumps. I can't find a thing that makes one shotgun stand out form the next in that spreadsheet. Did noticed that it is missing pellet spread though, so that may be the key thing for a shotgun to stand out. But when I tested the Claw (NC pump) back when it cam out it looked like it had the same spread as my Mauler.

If the balancing isn't giving a good choke selection (tighter spread for less damage or wider spread for more damage) to the more so called "ranged shotguns" then this is going to fuck the shotgun user base by either making them OP or UP in all areas..

Neutral Calypso · 2013-03-30, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

I have no idea how to balance shotguns to make them fair against other weapon types when they are a weapon made to specialize for one thing. It kinda goes against the entire reason to specialize into an area if it wont give you an edge for doing so.

You either end up with a god gun (USAS12 with frag and the M26Dart for BF3 before they got nerfed/fixed as an example) or something that isn't worth using at all. It is VERY rare for a shotgun to be balanced and for a while I thought that the semi-auto versions where damn near there. But then I found the weapon stat spreadsheet and seen something horrid.

EVERY SHOTGUN HAS THE SAME STATS!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...owsperpage=250

The only things that differ is travel time, reload speed, ROF, bullet drop (VS only), and the pellet counts for pumps. I can't find a thing that makes one shotgun stand out form the next in that spreadsheet. Did noticed that it is missing pellet spread though, so that may be the key thing for a shotgun to stand out. But when I tested the Claw (NC pump) back when it cam out it looked like it had the same spread as my Mauler.

If the balancing isn't giving a good choke selection (tighter spread for less damage or wider spread for more damage) to the more so called "ranged shotguns" then this is going to fuck the shotgun user base by either making them OP or UP in all areas..

The basic infantry shotguns are divided into Typical Semi-Automatic, High-Capacity Semi-Automatic, Automatic, and Pump-Action. Can't remember what balances the typical semi-auto against the high capacity semi-auto.

snafus · 2013-03-30, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Neutral Calypso

The basic infantry shotguns are divided into Typical Semi-Automatic, High-Capacity Semi-Automatic, Automatic, and Pump-Action. Can't remember what balances the typical semi-auto against the high capacity semi-auto.

If you are relating to real life then price would be the only balance

Neutral Calypso · 2013-03-30, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by snafus

If you are relating to real life then price would be the only balance

Oh but snafu! None of the weapons are supposed to be UPGRADES. They are all SIDEGRADES.

What do you think this is, pay to win?

...as far as I can tell the high-capacity shot-gun has a slower bullet-speed than all the other shotties. Guess that's the only balance for having a bigger mag.

Chewy · 2013-03-30, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Neutral Calypso

Oh but snafu! None of the weapons are supposed to be UPGRADES. They are all SIDEGRADES.

What do you think this is, pay to win?

...as far as I can tell the high-capacity shot-gun has a slower bullet-speed than all the other shotties. Guess that's the only balance for having a bigger mag.

There's only 3 total travel times with infantry shotguns 300, 275, 255. The 300/275 ones are mixed in with everything and the lone 255 is the Nova (a semi). I can't see a 55-25 change in travel time doing much for a CQC weapon like a shotgun.

ROF is 250 semi and 300 auto with pumps at 120. Not much here with shotguns needing to be timed anyway or risk missing to much. My Mauler can spam shells but I fire it closer to a pump speed to land more shots.

Total ammo is 48 shells in all shotguns but pump (30 total) with mag sizes being 5 (pump only), 6 (mixed), and 8 (semi only). This can be a good factor for choosing a shotgun. So I found 1 thing so far that gives a choice worth looking into.

Finally we have reload times. The same 4 reload times are also used for all factions but with semi having 2 of them. Pump is unlisted, Auto is 2.4s-3.8s, and the semis are 2.6s-4s and 1.925s-3.5s. This is the main reason why I got the Mauler. Less time reloading, a HUGE factor if you ask me in a shotgun.

Unless the pellet spread is a big change in the types I can't find much of a way to tell them apart. The only pellet spread data I could find on weapons is here ( https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...owsperpage=250 sorted to only show weapons with 6 pellets) on the I think 23rd segment. But I don't know what is what in that. There are no names, only ID numbers and there's a LOT more of them than there are shotguns (12 total shotguns, 28 ID numbers for 6 pellet things). I can't use that as I have no idea what it is telling me, can anyone use it?

BIGGByran · 2013-03-30, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by DeltaGun

Fun MAX Facts:

1x Orion: 1787.5 DPS
2x Quasar: 1875.96 DPS

1x Piston: 4290 DPS
2x Hacksaw: 8580 DPS

Let me pull a Deltagun. He seem to look at the weapon "on paper" stats, instead of field test, which people have provided video evidence.

Fun MAX Facts:
*Note: Stock guns*

1x Quasar: 50(rounds) * 167(Damage per shot) = 8,350
2x Quasar: 8350 * 2(2x AI Weapon) = 16,700

1x Hacksaw: 7(rounds) * 6(pellets) * 143(Damage per pellet) = 6,006
2x Hacksaw: 6006 * 2(2x AI Weapon) = 12,012

Quasar needs a major nerf as it deals more damage than our OP Hacksaws.

Understand that this is what Deltagun is doing. Seeing the stats on paper and making it look like ours is OP, but when I did my own "on paper" stats, I can make it look like the Quasar is OP and what I have written is fact.

Deltagun is assuming the "best possible situation" and which I am also doing.

The only way to truelly test the OPness of anything is to actually do field test, which people already have. It shows that we dominate at 5m and our domination drops off pass that against MAX.

Now if people can do the same test, but instead of MAX vs MAX, do a MAX vs Infantry. THE SAME EXACT TEST. 5m No moving just let the MAX do its job and see how long it takes to kill an Infantry. Do the test at 5m, 10m, 15m, and 20m. This will show the killing effectiveness of the weapon WITHOUT VARIABLES (Variable being: Player skill, Luck, Stupidity, Getting Jumped, etc, etc). I think someone did a test like this already.

Chewy · 2013-03-30, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by BIGGByran

Let me pull a Deltagun. He seem to look at the weapon "on paper" stats, instead of field test, which people have provided video evidence.

Fun MAX Facts:
*Note: Stock guns*

1x Quasar: 50(rounds) * 167(Damage per shot) = 8,350
2x Quasar: 8350 * 2(2x AI Weapon) = 16,700

1x Hacksaw: 7(rounds) * 6(pellets) * 143(Damage per pellet) = 6,006
2x Hacksaw: 6006 * 2(2x AI Weapon) = 12,012

Quasar needs a major nerf as it deals more damage than our OP Hacksaws.

Understand that this is what Deltagun is doing. Seeing the stats on paper and making it look like ours is OP, but when I did my own "on paper" stats, I can make it look like the Quasar is OP and what I have written is fact.

Deltagun is assuming the "best possible situation" and which I am also doing.

The only way to truelly test the OPness of anything is to actually do field test, which people already have. It shows that we dominate at 5m and our domination drops off pass that against MAX.

Now if people can do the same test, but instead of MAX vs MAX, do a MAX vs Infantry. THE SAME EXACT TEST. 5m No moving just let the MAX do its job and see how long it takes to kill an Infantry. Do the test at 5m, 10m, 15m, and 20m. This will show the killing effectiveness of the weapon WITHOUT VARIABLES (Variable being: Player skill, Luck, Stupidity, Getting Jumped, etc, etc). I think someone did a test like this already.

I have no idea who

Page 10, and it was dual Cosmos not Quasar. When the shotgun balance hits I plan on trying another run at NC MAX weapon field tests. Then again for all 3 MAXes when the MAX update comes.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-03-30, 10:51 PM

Thank you Chewy. Im sure we are all interested in seeing what you find.

BIGGByran · 2013-03-30, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

I have no idea who

Page 10, and it was dual Cosmos not Quasar. When the shotgun balance hits I plan on trying another run at NC MAX weapon field tests. Then again for all 3 MAXes when the MAX update comes.

Would be interesting to know!

Btw anyone know who the "Top" NC, TR, VS MAX players are?

Chewy · 2013-03-31, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by BIGGByran

Would be interesting to know!

Btw anyone know who the "Top" NC, TR, VS MAX players are?

I tried to look up MAX users but haven't found a way to do so without going into every single persons stats and look up everything manually. The only site I know of that lets one look into details of a player stats is this

https://players.planetside2.com/#!/leaderboards

and that can't filter anything but by time (day, week, month, all time) and what server.

Last I tried to look up MAX users I filtered by the top 100 monthly killers and went into every page to see if the person used a MAX as their top 3 classes or had a MAX weapon for top 3 weapons (ignored vehicle stats as that would have taken more time and pages to open). That was on page 7 and found 27 out of 100 of the top killers that months time had decent MAX use over their entire playtime. 11TR, 10NC, and 6VS the weapons those players used where the norm Hacksaw and Mercy but for VS it seemed to be the Nebula from that list.

Iv asked people time and time again as to where I could find better filters or if there was a better site yet none told me of anything so far. Hell, if my memory serves Im the only one that bothered to post how he got his data or gave reasons why/how said data was used.