I'm going to go ahead and pour some fuel on a dwindling fire and say...

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Hamma

EVE's metagame is Microsoft Excel.

For some people.

But the real meta game in EVE is corporations (ie. guilds) and alliance interaction and guilds working and planning together to build and maintain fleets and space stations.

All of it depends on combinable and transferable resources.

Thats stuff that PS2 isnt even close to doing.

[Rahabib]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

For some people.

But the real meta game in EVE is corporations (ie. guilds) and alliance interaction and guilds working and planning together to build and maintain fleets and space stations.

All of it depends on combinable and transferable resources.

Thats stuff that PS2 isnt even close to doing.

EVE is boring as hell, but the "metagame" is that you can control territories for long periods of time, gain resources and currency by doing so, and essentially owning everything related to it (economy, territory, sovereignty, etc.)

but yea its boring as hell because there is no action.

PS2 has action, but no reward system thats meaningful. Eventually people will unlock everything and just stop playing.

[Rothnang]

Yea, Eve's metagame is basically like having a second job. I played it for 2 years and was part of a huge alliance while I was in college, and I don't have good memories of it. By the time I left I had shifted my sleep cycle to basically being nocturnal to be part of a squad that kept a bunch of Russians from ninjaing our complexes every night and spent about 2 hours every day fueling stations and another 3-4 hours grinding NPC to keep myself rolling in cash. Then our alliance got overrun by another, bigger alliance and half the people quit the game, and the word to the rest was like "It's cool, if we work even harder we'll get it all back" ... yeaaaa no.

I mean you can't argue with the fact that Eve is deep and what you do has consequence, but a game like that ends up dictating your life.

[DirtyBird]

Going to vote with the Gave Up crew.
I think its all taken too long, others who have given up have left imo.
Sad to look at the friends list and see just a few on nowadays.
Not saying they all left just because of that, but I think it may have been a decent part of it.
Maybe they'll come back in time when its finally fixed, maybe something else will have caught their attention by then.

[maradine]

Originally Posted by Rothnang

I mean you can't argue with the fact that Eve is deep and what you do has consequence, but a game like that ends up dictating your life.

More or less why I quit EVE. I spent more time running the corp than flying a ship. I have a real job.

But I digress . . .

Lots of people mean different things when they say "metagame". I don't want a massive out-of-game collection of tasks and concerns - that's a bridge too far. What I do want is a reason to drive that spike of purple territory towards the NC/TR gate. PS1 got this right. It has nothing to do with whether it's hexes or a lattice. My hope is that people are still playing once enough continents roll off the line to support that model.

[EVILPIG]

Almost no one who talked about metagame even knew what metagame is.

[onewingedangel]

It doesn't matter what you call it. Putting some sort of continent lock and whatever you call the battle flow improvement is important. They really need to update everyone on that. There was mention of a test server the week after an announcement about the system but then silence.

[CrankyTRex]

I think most of us have just said our peace and are waiting to see what they implement.

Thus far, I haven't seen anything I'm confident will correct the issues I have with the game. I expect the semi-lattice we saw to basically eliminate all non-Zerg action, which means the game will be unplayable for me since going near that stuff chokes my computer, but it's hard to tell without having tried it.

Originally Posted by Rothnang

The other big problem is that the resource system simply sucks. It looks at vehicles like some kind of special treat that you get for doing well. But that design philosophy has proven to be incredibly flawed, because the people that enjoy the hell out of playing infantry don't even want to get a vehicle when they do well, and the people who enjoy using vehicles a lot don't want to be told that they aren't allowed right now. That's why the whole vehicles for resources system just doesn't really mesh with the way people play. To some its of no consequence, to others it's pure frustration, ultimately nobody sees it as a reward.

Yeah the timers and resources seem completely arbitrary. If a facility could only spawn so many per time period or something of that sort, it would be easier, but since I'm supposedly spawning my own vehicle, running into a timer or the rare resource restriction gets very frustrating at times, particularly with how long it can take to overcome them. Similarly if I want to do some ground pounding instead, the only time I care about vehicle availability is if I need a Flash.

I know they want this to play into attrition, but attrition doesn't matter a whole lot in this game. You don't get much of a reward for keeping a vehicle alive longer, only that when you die you don't have to wait forever to get another one. Plus, death in this game often has very little to do with personal skill, and that adds another level of irritation to seeing that timer in the way again. (Or worse, the occasional game crash or disconnect.)

[Goldymires]

I think people are just looking for nuance.

I mean...there's just not much to do.

Feels so repetative..

[Canaris]

Originally Posted by Hamma

EVE's metagame is Microsoft Excel.

You know my friend once asked me what it would be like if sci-fi accountants ruled the Galaxy, I told him just like EVE.

on topic I don't think it's as bad as everyone makes out "those who are waiting on meta game have all fled already"... bah I can still see you all here and on the offical forums still wagging your lips so please, most people have said their piece and are awaiting some of the new combat flow systems to be rolled out before they begin "Metagame bitch fest version 2".

[Mox]

Maybe there is some arguing about some details of how the meta game should work or what it should be.
But the core principles of ps2 meta game are absolutly clear: i. e. a meaningfull system of intercontinental warfare with continent locks.

Just simple like that.

[Rothnang]

Originally Posted by CrankyTRex

I know they want this to play into attrition, but attrition doesn't matter a whole lot in this game. You don't get much of a reward for keeping a vehicle alive longer, only that when you die you don't have to wait forever to get another one. Plus, death in this game often has very little to do with personal skill, and that adds another level of irritation to seeing that timer in the way again. (Or worse, the occasional game crash or disconnect.)

Yea, they get attrition exactly the wrong way in my opinion. The factor of attrition in the world shouldn't be a global thing that hands out free samples of buttfucking to anyone who got overrun by the zerg while in their favourite vehicle.

What attrition should be all about is that the defender has a huge advantage on their home turf, but can't simply hold out for all time in that particular base without logistics support, and also that the attackers may have the initiative in every fight, but they can't keep the same gargantuan zerg rolling across an entire continent without logistics support.

Resources should be more about where you fight than what you can use to fight. Questions like whether you have to fly back to the warpgate to get new bombs or land at a convenient nearby tower should be what makes you care about logistics and resources.

I don't mind the timers too much, because I don't think losing a vehicle should be entirely without consequence. I personally hate infantry gameplay because people behave like immortal jackasses in it, and since I like military simulation and shooters where death matters that just turns me off. In vehicle gameplay people don't act like their life doesn't matter as much, and I like that, because it keeps a psychological element in the game.

[Ruffdog]

It's kinda like a good song. It got played too much. People are loathe now to bring it up because they'll get shouted down because we're sick of it. Even though its good to the ears.

Let them fix battleflow first: we'll see what happens with this:

[Mietz]

Ultimately the new lattice will marginally improve metagame.
However there are a badzillion other things to fix before it will become serviceable though.

Tacticians and strategists currently yawn at this game.

[Qwan]

I dont know guys, I think the so called meta rant is dying because new players to the game are starting to see that PS2 is a game constantly in the process of growing. Also that people have definitions of meta game. Some see continent locks as the meta, or additional continents, base changes, and when they look at the scheduel for the up and coming patches they see somthing that makes the meta for them. So over all people who complained about a meta may have looked at the list of things to come and see that the requirement for there vision of a meta is meet or will be in the future. For me I dont really look at PS2 as a game that was designed for a meta, a end game so to say. Granted I think that there should be rewards for certain accomplishments but trying to put a meta or a end game for a game thats constantaly changing doesnt make sence to me. I mean think about it if a faction locks a continent, does that mean they won and they shouldnt play anymore because they meet the requirements for there meta. I can garantee you that when they log on a hour later things will not be the same. So the rant for a meta is going to dye down because as you play the game you see that PS2 has a constant changing enviroment, one second your zerg is taking over the next second its getting beat back by the oposition, and loosing ground. Meta in this game is having fun from the time you log in, have some fun with friends, to the time you log out.