A terminal hacking idea - Page 2

infinite loop · 2003-11-19, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Personally I don�t see a problem with people getting a certification in something they normally would not. The Flail already falls into this category. You can only get one if you have the proper module installed.

That's not the same thing. The flail is common pool. I agree it is difficult to get at times, but anyone can if they want to.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Though if the decision were mine I�d probably rework some of the certifications. For example I�d keep the 3 MAX certs but probably change them to category based (AP, AA, and AV) rather than be MAX specific so someone with the Anti-Personnel MAX cert could use any AP MAX dependant upon availability.

I don't know if I understand you here. Are you saying that all 9 MAX units should simply be common pool? If so, then again, what's the point of having 3 different empires? Maybe you're just saying again that you should be able to get enemy maxes at hacked terms? If so, you wouldn't have to rework any certs for that, besides possibly modify their descriptions.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

Also, I don�t see this as a problem with game balance. If one empire has better equipment THAT is your balance problem. So no game balance problem should be introduced by simply making various equipment more readily attainable to others.

Well that's a whole different can of worms right there. The prevailing argument, whether or not you agree, is that the game is balanced by overall empire, not by each cert. For example, say the MCG is better than the lasher. But perhaps the Quasar MAX is better than the Pounder MAX. It's not a one-to-one balance, it's overall empire balance. The ONLY way to offer true one-to-one balance is to have everything available in the game to be common pool. If that's what you want, I understand your argument. Otherwise, mixing it up so that it's all common pool some of the time is just a bastardization of balance and won't work. BTW, I'm against making everything all common pool, it defeats the fun of the empires.

Originally Posted by BadAsh

I do kind of see your point about bases not getting taken over and people just using a crippled (spawn tubes blown) base to stage an attack of hacked vehicles. But you can already do this with your own vehicles. You can Zerg a base, blow the tubes, and hack a horde of tanks, reavers, etc. without having to take the base. So I really don�t see this suggestion as introducing this as a problem.

You're missing my point here. There is obviously nothing wrong with hacking a veh term at a camped base and rolling out vehicles. I'm saying, if we could do this to get enemy vehicles, I can see this leading to bad behavior. I can see people camping an enemy base, with the intention of using it as a staging ground for getting enemy vehicles, and NEVER hacking the base. That's a problem. I've never once seen this behavior in game currently. Why would you camp a base and not hack it?

FireZ · 2003-11-19, 12:23 PM

This idea has been tossed around alot. We asked about this in beta....And maybe (seeing how they are fixing bugs from beta that are still out there) we will see some of these suggestions.

Kenney · 2003-11-19, 02:32 PM

If you wanna keep empires from not hacking enemy bases only the terminals for weapons...

-every terminal that can be hacked, can only be hacked once to obtain enemy weaponry.

-after a second hack, the terminal simply turns to your control as it does now.

-Put a timer on the terminal so it only lasts a certain time, making it impossible for an empire to just keep an enemy base unhacked for the purpose of their terminal.

-this would also be good for when your raiding a base, you hack the terminal, use their own weapons against them, then after some time the enemy weapons aren't available anymore

Kenney · 2003-11-19, 02:34 PM

One more thing...if you hack their terminal and the timer run out...when the base changes empire control, the terminal is re-set so it can be hacked for enemy weapons again

Hamma · 2003-11-19, 03:51 PM

I dont think this is a good idea, it ruins the uniqueness of the empires.

BadAsh · 2003-11-19, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

I dont think this is a good idea, it ruins the uniqueness of the empires.

I agree with your position Hamma,

I just would much rather see the factions/empires differ more in appearance rather than tactical capability. I think all vehicles and equipment should be the same �on paper� dealing the same damage at the same ranges with the same rate of fire. The distinct variations should be audio and visual. For example a TR tank should look completely different and even sound different from a NC tank and a VS tank, but they should be functional duplicates. At a glance you should KNOW what empire that tank is from, and hearing one rolling in the distance or firing it�s main gun should likewise be unique.

In this way players would be forced to make individual tactical gear choices that determine their effectiveness on the battlefield. As it stands the empire you choose makes these capability determinations for you.

To illustrate this, let�s say you have a base with a shield module installed and you are being attacked.

If the attacker is NC you need to watch out for foot soldiers passing through the barrier and you have to watch for enemy air power. However, if the NC have a battery of Phoenix AV specialists they have an effective means to clear out your courtyard of your MAX units and Armor. Also, keeping an AMS in the courtyard will be a challenge. The way for the infantry to enter and smash the shield module or hack the base can be opened.

If the attacker is VS you need to watch out for foot soldiers passing through the barrier and you have to watch for enemy air power. However, if the VS send a squad of MAXs over your walls to reinforce their infantry and air attack you can quickly find yourself in trouble. The way for the infantry to enter and smash the shield module or hack the base can be opened.

If the attacker is TR you need ONLY watch for infantry and air power. Defending the base is much easier because their �variation� left out a way for them to attack over the walls. So if you are defending your base, just keep an AMS out in the open nice and safe along with several tanks to obliterate any infantry passing through the barriers. And have a squad of anti-air MAXs and AV weapon infantry (also nice and safe in the courtyard) to take out any incoming enemy air. The way for the infantry to enter and smash the shield module or hack the base can NOT so easily be opened.

The point here is that due to tactical limitations the TR cannot really threaten a well defended base with a shield module installed. The NC and VS likewise have their limitations. I don�t really buy into this empire related strengths and weaknesses game design. I think the strengths and weaknesses of each empire should be defined by the skill, tactics, and leadership ability of it�s players and not the programming of SOE.

BadAsh

Jagd · 2003-11-19, 07:45 PM

What you are asking for is some cheap vanilla balance pass where everything becomes boring and interchangeable. I don't like the sound of that at all, and even with all the nerfs and buffs over the months I still think skill and tactics overcome the fact that one empire's HA weapon takes .3 seconds longer to kill than the others. Deal with it, it's part of the game. I was actually more annoyed over all with the balance pass because it's just like "Leave the guns alone, we are used to them now so let them be!!!"

I like that you have to use a different approach to play as VS than as NC. VS have to be quick and land hits on the move (I'm thinking tanks here), whereas the lumbering Vanguard can just park and soak up damage while it tries to land a few shells of its own. That adds such an awesome dimension to the gameplay. If the vanu just had purple orbs coming out that did the same damage, and it looked like it was hovering but handled like a tracked tank it would ruin the suspension of disbelief and take a lot of the variety (spice!) away from Planetside. God knows PS does not have unlimited variety in its gameplay to spare.

BadAsh · 2003-11-19, 08:24 PM

Jagd,

It is neither cheap or vanilla as it would provide many variations to tactics and game play...

In the tank example you used...

As the game currently stands if you want to play a heavy tank you have to play as NC. If you want to play a light tank you have to play VS. Tired of your light or heavy tank? Sure, just delete your character and start all over at BR1 and leave your outfit and friends behind OR join another world server with a higher ping, start a new character at BR1 and leave your outfit and friends behind (when you are playing there).

Or as per my preferance, if you want a light tank, meduim tank, or heavy tank, just get the appropriate certification and get one... gear/cert selection rather than empire selection is the theme of my preferance...

I just think it's a better way to achieve game balance. Of course a lot of people don't want game balance... they carefully selected their empire because of a particular advantage and they live by exploiting that... to them variety and a fair battleground are unthinkable...

So clearly I've given you the choice to either agree with me or be some type of cowardly design flaw exploiter...

Still going to offer a different opinion?

BadAsh

Jagd · 2003-11-19, 09:03 PM

Yes, and not just because your logic is flawed. If you like the sound of massive damage per hit, you choose NC knowing that you will need to have good, consistent accuracy for those hits to mean anything. If you prefer using quick thinking and mobility to flank your enemies you choose VS, knowing that going toe-to-toe with your opponent is often suicide. If you love just unloading with as much firepower as possible and tearing your enemies to shreds, you go TR, knowing that while you can get away with less accuracy you will need a steady ammo supply to keep yourself in the fight. Every empire is filled with players who are there because they like the trade-offs, and know that they can succeed because of the pros, and despite of the cons.

As I have said already, this adds to the gameplay, instead of making it superficial like blue, red and purple tracer fire alone would do. I'm not going to get into a pointless argument about which empire is more powerful than the others because all empires have pros and cons going for them. That is the point.

Now here you sit, with your Private stripe and all, trying to tell me that I'm just out to exploit the balance of the empires? Like most PS players, I enjoy the empires' different play styles, and I have tried all 3 factions before settling on the TR and VS for my main characters. Can you say the same? Perhaps it's you who needs to think twice before offering such an ill-conceived opinion.

BadAsh · 2003-11-19, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jagd

Now here you sit, with your Private stripe and all, trying to tell me that I'm just out to exploit the balance of the empires? Like most PS players, I enjoy the empires' different play styles, and I have tried all 3 factions before settling on the TR and VS for my main characters. Can you say the same? Perhaps it's you who needs to think twice before offering such an ill-conceived opinion.

This might help:

My comments you are referring to were sarcasm... I was making fun of flame types and the logic they use... and then you used it... sorry you took that the wrong way� it�s the inherent danger when posting sarcastic humor�

And speaking of faulty logic... how does you posting more here somehow give you wisdom and make your OPINION more valid?

If you disagree, say so and why. No need to flame, be rude, or try to validate expertise superiority through some invalid reasoning.

Play nice... or not... just keep in mind, how you play (read: deal with others) defines who you are far more than the # of posts you've made.

BadAsh Out!

Jagd · 2003-11-19, 10:24 PM

Don't try and lecture me, child. I called you on your troll, and you'll have to live with it. Trying to pretend things happened differently only makes you look silly, as does harping about "logic" while avoiding the actual topic of discussion.

Do you actually think I'm flaming you? This is more like a luke warm bath. Ready to venture back on topic?