So..... NC guns arent bad anymore.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

I never thought the NC weapons where horrible to start with. The removal of flinch has made things easier sure. But I personally always chalked it up to players not knowing how to properly use the weapons over the weapons being bad themselves.

If you are good and fast shot who regularly takes everyone you see out with a head shot - then yes because you are awesome you wont notice the difference.

If you are average then the flinch makes a big difference with slow firing guns.

[Baneblade]

All I had to do to know something was wrong was check out TR and VS and perform miles better with characters that had zero unlocks or cert upgrades.

Apparently I don't suck as much as I've been lead to believe. Any average NC player will rip faces off as TR or VS.

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

If you are good and fast shot who regularly takes everyone you see out with a head shot - then yes because you are awesome you wont notice the difference.

If you are average then the flinch makes a big difference with slow firing guns.

I'm not disagreeing here. I am just saying that most players I have seen do not know how to use proper cover when attacking. Most players don't seem to know that burst firing with the NC weapons is far more effective then holding the trigger down. Most players do not seem to know how to properly load out their weapon with the right attachments. Things like this make a huge difference.

While flinch sucked, knowing when to go for cover and when to stay and shoot it out helps. Situational awareness helps. Unfortunately most of this is chalked up as weapon issue and not so much a player issue. Just my thoughts anyways.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

I never thought the NC weapons where horrible to start with. The removal of flinch has made things easier sure. But I personally always chalked it up to players not knowing how to properly use the weapons over the weapons being bad themselves.

Yeah. I had a pretty big post about it but I'm pretty tired of being yelled out by NC. Just want to put it behind us and we'll see what the next big thing is.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

I'm not disagreeing here. I am just saying that most players I have seen do not know how to use proper cover when attacking. Most players don't seem to know that burst firing with the NC weapons is far more effective then holding the trigger down. Most players do not seem to know how to properly load out their weapon with the right attachments. Things like this make a huge difference.

While flinch sucked, knowing when to go for cover and when to stay and shoot it out helps. Situational awareness helps. Unfortunately most of this is chalked up as weapon issue and not so much a player issue. Just my thoughts anyways.

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Yeah. I had a pretty big post about it but I'm pretty tired of being yelled out by NC. Just want to put it behind us and we'll see what the next big thing is.

So your point is that it was ok because NC should have been smarter and better players than VS and TR needed to be?


News flash - as a whole the players in all factions are the same.
When the average players on just one side had a disadvantage it was a bad thing.

[Bocheezu]

I'm normally TR, but I've been playing an NC dude a fair amount on the weekends lately, mostly as HA or LA.

Guass SAW is a monster once you get advanced foregrip. Made a gigantic difference for me and the recoil seems much more managable. Certain areas become lock down zones where one guy can wipe out multiple infantry at a time; chiefly among those the Staircases of Doom in any tower and a lot of the firing lanes in biolabs. It's easy to pop out from behind cover and get 1-2 guys at distance and get back behind cover to recharge shields. I went 67-3 in an hour doing this; I was camping the stairways at a Crossroads 3-way, and on an Allatum attack camping the stretch from gen room to the trees. 67-3 in an hour as infantry (not behind teleporter shields) is just hilarious to me; I am not a good player by any means and literally anybody could do this.

The Mercenary is not a bad weapon at all, either. I don't see it much on my TR guy, because everybody has GD-7F or a shotgun, but it's better than TRAC-5 and I actually have a better time with it than Solstice, which I didn't think was possible. For me, the accuracy and high damage more than make up for the low RoF.

[Xaine]

After playing all three factions for quite a bit, i'd say the NC's weapons are generally about as good as the VS weapons.

The TR weapons however are just better. The extra ammo they get in their guns just means they can shoot more/for longer when they need to.

Their reload times aren't great, but when you get right down to it - being able to 40 rounds instead of 30 (25% more) with the same damage is just not right.

[MrBloodworth]

Um... Same Damage as what?

[SGOniell]

Originally Posted by Hmr85

I'm not disagreeing here. I am just saying that most players I have seen do not know how to use proper cover when attacking. Most players don't seem to know that burst firing with the NC weapons is far more effective then holding the trigger down. Most players do not seem to know how to properly load out their weapon with the right attachments. Things like this make a huge difference.

While flinch sucked, knowing when to go for cover and when to stay and shoot it out helps. Situational awareness helps. Unfortunately most of this is chalked up as weapon issue and not so much a player issue. Just my thoughts anyways.

If you run into a guy in the open, with no cover readily available, that entire statement is irrelevant. I'd find myself with excellently kitted out weapons, but if I ran into someone and we started firing around the same time, the flinch would kill me. Light assaults were burning right through me quickly, and I couldn't do anything about it.

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by SGOniell

If you run into a guy in the open, with no cover readily available, that entire statement is irrelevant. I'd find myself with excellently kitted out weapons, but if I ran into someone and we started firing around the same time, the flinch would kill me. Light assaults were burning right through me quickly, and I couldn't do anything about it.

Its not irrelevant, If your running out into the open and not already thinking two steps ahead of where you are going cover wise then your doing it wrong. I'm sorry.

As I stated above flinch was a problem sure I have never debated that. But making the generalization that the weapons and flinch where the cause of all your woes as most players seem to make it out to be seems meh to me. I have been playing NC for almost 10 years exclusively. NC in PS2 since week 1 tech test.

As I said it comes down to how you play and if your the type that runs in guns a blazing not caring about proper cover like running across a open field and or just generally using your weapon improperly and not burst firing your going to die to stupid shit like flinch and so on.

Like I said I chalk it up to player issues because honestly I didn't have any problems with the NC weapons like everybody else prior the patch and I do not consider myself a above average FPS player.

This is just my opinion.

[Xaine]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Um... Same Damage as what?

The TR weapons mostly (5 out of 6 Carbines) have the same damage as the VS equivalents. The Pulsar C has slightly more damage per hit.

However, no one uses the Pulsar C if they can help it, because its a bit meh compared to the other ones.

They have the same damage, yet they fire faster so they can put out more DPS. Ontop of that, they also have more ammuniton.

There is more damage potential in a TR carbine per magazine, than there is in a VS weapon. Its just a fact. You have more bullets in the gun, and the bullets do the same damage.

Not only that, but the gun also fires faster. So you can put out more DPS.

The 'trade off' is reload times. The TR typically have the highest reload times. Boo hoo?

Now, I manage to do fine with every weapon I pick up because i'm just good at FPS games. (Not because i'm the super l33t pro FPS player, i've just played a lot of FPS games over the past 10 years. Do something often enough, you'll get good) However, the TR weapons at everything from about 0 to 30 meters are just better than the other empires guns.

Its not a huge difference, but its pretty substantial.

[Bocheezu]

Originally Posted by Xaine

The 'trade off' is reload times.

And recoil; TRAC-5 has a higher magnitude recoil and a more severe right lean to it than Solstice does

From the weapon data sheet's FireModes tab, you have to do some detective work to figure out which line is which weapon

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...er=true&gid=61

TRAC-5 (row 14)

Recoil Magnitude Min/Max: 0.3
First Shot Recoil Multiplier: 2.35x
Recoil Angle Min: 20
Recoil Angle Max: 27
Recoil Horizontal Min: 0.225

Medium recoil, highest right lean, highest side-to-side jittering

Solstice (row 15)

Recoil Magnitude Min/Max: 0.25
First Shot Recoil Multiplier: 2.8x
Recoil Angle Min: 10
Recoil Angle Max: 17
Recoil Horizontal Min/Max: 0.2

Lowest recoil, medium right lean, medium side-to-side jittering

Mercenary (row 4)

Recoil Magnitude Min/Max: 0.4
First Shot Recoil Multiplier: 1.75x
Recoil Angle Min: 0
Recoil Angle Max: 0
Recoil Horizontal Min/Max: 0.175

Highest recoil, but it's straight up; lowest side-to-side jittering

[Empra]

Originally Posted by Xaine

The TR weapons mostly (5 out of 6 Carbines) have the same damage as the VS equivalents. The Pulsar C has slightly more damage per hit.

However, no one uses the Pulsar C if they can help it, because its a bit meh compared to the other ones.

They have the same damage, yet they fire faster so they can put out more DPS. Ontop of that, they also have more ammuniton.

There is more damage potential in a TR carbine per magazine, than there is in a VS weapon. Its just a fact. You have more bullets in the gun, and the bullets do the same damage.

Not only that, but the gun also fires faster. So you can put out more DPS.

The 'trade off' is reload times. The TR typically have the highest reload times. Boo hoo?

Now, I manage to do fine with every weapon I pick up because i'm just good at FPS games. (Not because i'm the super l33t pro FPS player, i've just played a lot of FPS games over the past 10 years. Do something often enough, you'll get good) However, the TR weapons at everything from about 0 to 30 meters are just better than the other empires guns.

Its not a huge difference, but its pretty substantial.

See I agree with that statement. When I play TR I have an easier time with the guns. Even compared to the VS.

In my opinion NC are lowest on the ladder because they miss so many shots that potential dps is not important when all of the lasers make your face holy, or the TR bullet hose disentegrates you, while you have to aim at their balls because it's the quickest way to the head via kickback.

I exaggerate but geting headshots makes all the difference and they are way harder to get with most nc weapons considering they dont fire fast or are accurate enough.

I have GD 7f I think, the CQ carbine for NC, closer to the TR gun, albeit with forward grip rather than laser, works fine. Refire VS Power trade off and range of course.

AC 11 20 round power carbine, relatively useless as it focuses on power with accuracy as the trade off and I don't think they scale equally.

VS machine guns? headshot from miles away, TR weapons? High refire and Higher accuracy than NC so at close and medium more hits=more death and supression. NC have to buy more "TR like" guns. That's why most people love the EM6 and the GD 7f or the other CQ guns. Gauss is a sniper rifle and all take hundreds of certs to get the kick down to competitive levels, also it means you have to buy those certs or you are less competitive.

So in my opinon the other empires have more damage potential, VS through more potential headshot damage and TR through the more potential for less misses or stray arm shots and higher refire.

Most the game is close to medium so.

[BlaxicanX]

Never understood the problem with NC's guns.

As my sig cards below show, I started off playing TR first, but got frustrated with their guns shooting silly string, so I changed to NC.

I've been maining with NC for awhile now as the card shows, and as everyone can see my K/D, while technically awful, is nearly twice as good as my TR K/D.

Personally I just like NC guns so much more than TR's, I don't think I can ever go back.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Xaine

The TR weapons mostly (5 out of 6 Carbines) have the same damage as the VS equivalents. The Pulsar C has slightly more damage per hit.

However, no one uses the Pulsar C if they can help it, because its a bit meh compared to the other ones.

They have the same damage, yet they fire faster so they can put out more DPS. Ontop of that, they also have more ammuniton.

There is more damage potential in a TR carbine per magazine, than there is in a VS weapon. Its just a fact. You have more bullets in the gun, and the bullets do the same damage.

Not only that, but the gun also fires faster. So you can put out more DPS.

The 'trade off' is reload times. The TR typically have the highest reload times. Boo hoo?

Now, I manage to do fine with every weapon I pick up because i'm just good at FPS games. (Not because i'm the super l33t pro FPS player, i've just played a lot of FPS games over the past 10 years. Do something often enough, you'll get good) However, the TR weapons at everything from about 0 to 30 meters are just better than the other empires guns.

Its not a huge difference, but its pretty substantial.

I'll need to look it up, but I'm not sure this is correct. Also, TR guns have more of a chance of missing, and require way more recoil and flinch control.

I believe you are highly biased.