Excuse for no platoons? - Page 2

Bad Mojo · 2003-07-15, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by 1024
Anyone know SOEs excuse for not implementing platoons? Doesn't seem like it woud take that much work...

Who is going to host a teamspeak server for 29 other people?

Will this mean adding a new channel and channel macro?

Who can add people to the platoon?

Who can kick people out of the platoon?

Who can kick a squad out of a platoon?

Will there be a platoon "leader"?

Will the platoon leader get more CXP than a squad leader?

Do Squad Leaders still get CXP? Or BXP?

Can SL's still set waypoints in a platoon?

Are there platoon WPs and squad WPs?

Do the platoon WPs look different?

Can platoons see all the troops on their map?

How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.

Once you have all these questions answered in a way that is satisfactory to not only yourself but to the majority of people who pay for a monthly subscription, you need to code it, and test it and re-test it. It's not like they can just flip a switch and platoons are in the game.

MaestroBabeh · 2003-07-15, 09:19 AM

Who is going to host a teamspeak server for 29 other people?

Our outfits dedicated TS server already has 3 individual squad channels, and a bind to whisper to all squad leaders. Thats all you need.

Squad members don't need to communicate between other squads within the platoon, thats the leaders job to communicate between the other leaders.

So you would have the same 3 seperate squad channels, but allow the 3 squad leaders to communicate thru whispers.

Will this mean adding a new channel and channel macro?

Likely, at least for the whisper.

Who can add people to the platoon?

Squad leaders invite members into their own squad, functioning as per usual.

The Platoon leader (defined as the squad leader who created the platoon) can invite other squad leaders into the Platoon, to a maximum of 2 others.

Who can kick people out of the platoon?

The Platoon Leader can kick other squad leaders, plus members of his own squad. The Squad leaders can add and remove members of their squad as per usual.

Who can kick a squad out of a platoon?

See above.

Will there be a platoon "leader"?

Yes, the person who creates the platoon. Eg, he invites 1 or 2 other squad leaders to his platoon.

Will the platoon leader get more CXP than a squad leader?

CEP will be shared equally between Squad Leaders, with a bonus boost similar to the BEP sharing between squad members.

This means that in order to maximise CEP, squads within the platoon should be at different bases, because the CEP would be divided. This is important as CEP is already difficult to accumulate. Squads in the same base at the same time would not be maximising CEP potential. So perhaps, CEP should be kept at an individual squad level, not shared at all...

Do Squad Leaders still get CXP? Or BXP?

CEP.

Can SL's still set waypoints in a platoon?

There will be Squad waypoints, and platoon waypoints. How these are implemented I wouldnt care to guess. Either the whole platoon gets to see them, or just the SLs?

Are there platoon WPs and squad WPs?

See above.

Do the platoon WPs look different?

It would make sense....

Can platoons see all the troops on their map?

I think definately the platoon leader should see them all, and SLs possibly. Other members seeing would be useful too, for gal pilots etc. So I think it should be a toggle option.

How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.
Not sure, but if they are toggleable (see above) then it would still work. Perhaps different colours for platoon members. Blue numbers for squad, and green Xs for platoon? With green Ls for other squad leaders.?

It's not like they can just flip a switch and platoons are in the game.

No, but it was one of the things that was defined and supposed to be added during closed beta...

Bad Mojo · 2003-07-15, 10:10 AM

Yay, you managed to answer all my questions in a way that showed that you can't solve all the problems easily and without a lot of work. Let me summarize:

1) Someone is going to have to suck up to hosting a TS server for 30 people on their cable modem using the built in TS server in PS.

2) Whisper ability will have to be added to PS's TS server and client.

3) New commands for creating and manipulating platoons need to be added along with new panels to display the platoon members and various squad members. This includes invites, kicks, etc. New panels to show platoon invites to other squad leaders and new commands to accept those invites. Everything has a /commands and a GUI panel to represent the response. These new panels may have to be translated to other languages and verified.

4) Prove that the CEP distribution system is accepted by a majority of the paying subscribers.

5) You never really came up with a good WP solution or a troop map representation.

Platoons aren't easy. As a coder myself I understand the non-trivial nature of adding them to the game. They are also my personal favorite "want it in PS" thing. I also don't recall (even in the beta) platoons being promised or us being told platoons were "simple" by the developers.

I, personally, get a little miffed with people thinking that adding platoons is some trivial thing that wouldn't take 5 minutes to throw into the code. You don't own the code, you can't see the code, you don't know what change record management system SOE is using so no one here knows what's really involved in making platoons a reality that we can all enjoy.

MaestroBabeh · 2003-07-15, 10:17 AM

1) Someone is going to have to suck up to hosting a TS server for 30 people on their cable modem using the built in TS server in PS.

Not what I suggested...

I said you would still have squads with their seperate in-game voice servers, but you also have some kind of whisper ability between SLs.

This IMO will prove too much work. ANd hosting 30 peeps from one connection is not viable.

What I believe will happen is that Squad Leaders will communicate via a /platoon chat channel (which already exists) and relay any informaiton to their own squad thru what ever means they have (voice or /squad chat)

2) Whisper ability will have to be added to PS's TS server and client.

Yup.

3) New commands for creating and manipulating platoons need to be added along with new panels to display the platoon members and various squad members. This includes invites, kicks, etc. New panels to show platoon invites to other squad leaders and new commands to accept those invites. Everything has a /commands and a GUI panel to represent the response. These new panels may have to be translated to other languages and verified.

You don't need to display platoon members on everyones screen... you only need to see your own squad on the top bar... A platoon GUI would be needed however, as you say for creating, inviting.

4) Prove that the CEP distribution system is accepted by a majority of the paying subscribers.

5) You never really came up with a good WP solution or a troop map representation.

As I previously suggested, WPs would be set by Squad leaders, as per usual. Platoon WPs would be set by the Platoon Leader, and could be toggleable.

Platoons aren't easy. As a coder myself I understand the non-trivial nature of adding them to the game. They are also my personal favorite "want it in PS" thing. I also don't recall (even in the beta) platoons being promised or us being told platoons were "simple" by the developers.

Niether did I, but they we where told they would be added before release.

I am a "coder" (actually Im a programmer, coding is for babies and monkeys) myself also.

I, personally, get a little miffed with people thinking that adding platoons is some trivial thing that wouldn't take 5 minutes to throw into the code. You don't own the code, you can't see the code, you don't know what change record management system SOE is using so no one here knows what's really involved in making platoons a reality that we can all enjoy.

I dont recall anyone thinking they *would* be trivial. However, they where in the original design of the game, and therefore should have been ready before release, and before new, undesigned content was concieved and proved (eg the liberator).

Bad Mojo · 2003-07-15, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by MaestroBabeh

I dont recall anyone thinking they *would* be trivial. However, they where in the original design of the game, and therefore should have been ready before release, and before new, undesigned content was concieved and proved (eg the liberator).

So, if it was in the "original design", it must be easier than new content? That's not a reasonable assumption. Platoons have a more far reaching impact on the game and the code than adding a vehicle does. It's quite possible that until recently, the reason platoons have not been put in the game is the fact that all the "questions" have not been answered to the complete satisfaction of the developers and game designers. There may be issues that we (as players) are not aware of.

Anyways, I want platoons but I'll not complain if they take 6 months to add.

PR24 · 2003-07-15, 10:31 AM

Bad MoJo WTF are you defending SOE?

SOE was "supposed" to add Platoons in the release of PS yet they never did. 2 months later there is still no speak of it.

They have added some pretty dumb shit like the 3000x800 res when they could be adding what the community that pays wants.
Adding vehicles should come AFTER the simple game play fixes. The memory leak is still there, Platoons are not added, players are bored as hell of the game thats why servers are starting to empty out.

They (SOE) are digging their own grave. PS will fail is they refuse to listen to what the community wants and needs.

PR24 · 2003-07-15, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Bad Mojo

I'll not complain if they take 6 months to add.

Wait that long and you will get your platoons, in a thing called an " Expansion pack".

Bad Mojo · 2003-07-15, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by PR24
Bad MoJo WTF are you defending SOE?

SOE was "supposed" to add Platoons in the release of PS yet they never did. 2 months later there is still no speak of it.

Show me where SOE promised you platoons and I will gladly agree they have falen down on their agreement.

They (SOE) are digging their own grave. PS will fail is they refuse to listen to what the community wants and needs.

You're still playing PS, I gather?

PR24 · 2003-07-15, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Bad Mojo

You're still playing PS, I gather?

No

I am disappointed with the game and got bored with it. I jumped in for 1 hour last night and let. Prior to that I had not played in 2 weeks.

As for finding where Dave G said there would be Platoons in the release i will have to search but I know people here remember him saying this.

Bad Mojo · 2003-07-15, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by PR24
No

I am disappointed with the game and got bored with it. I jumped in for 1 hour last night and let. Prior to that I had not played in 2 weeks.

As long as you pay for your account but don't play, more bandwidth and server resources for me. Thanks for that.

PR24 · 2003-07-15, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Bad Mojo
As long as you pay for your account but don't play, more bandwidth and server resources for me. Thanks for that.

Well I won't be paying for next month so don't go jerking off yet

Happy lil Elf · 2003-07-15, 11:49 AM

Who is going to host a teamspeak server for 29 other people?

Whoever wants to. Lots won't but then again lots don't want to host a TS channel for 10 people as it stands right now.

Will this mean adding a new channel and channel macro?

Yes.

Who can add people to the platoon?

Squad leaders assuming they have a spot open in their squad or the platoon leader if he has a spot open in his.

Who can kick people out of the platoon?

Platoon leader can kick individuals or whole squads. Squad leaders can kick from their own squad.

Who can kick a squad out of a platoon?

Platoon leader

Will there be a platoon "leader"?

Yes, whoever starts the platoon.

Will the platoon leader get more CXP than a squad leader?

No.

Do Squad Leaders still get CXP? Or BXP?

CEP

Can SL's still set waypoints in a platoon?

Yes.

Are there platoon WPs and squad WPs?

Yes.

Do the platoon WPs look different?

Yes.

Can platoons see all the troops on their map?

Yes, assuming you mean all players in their platoon.

How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.

Not really and if it is too large, shrink the number.

Once you have all these questions answered in a way that is satisfactory to not only yourself but to the majority of people who pay for a monthly subscription

Not really feasable when it hasn't even been brought to the test server yet.

you need to code it,

This is why we pay SOE and SOE pays programmers

and test it and re-test it.

We have the test server now. Testing it is really a part of coding it for the most part. The little bugs get worked out on the test server.

It's not like they can just flip a switch and platoons are in the game.

Obviously they can't just flip a switch but since it's been one of the, if not the, most anticipated features since Beta, hell one of the founding ideas of my outfit was 3 platoons working in harmony, they've had ample time to do all of the above.

Ghoest9 · 2003-07-15, 12:19 PM

There are many viable ways to implement this.

A simple idea that would be better than what we have.

All squads that are made up of 1 outfit only on a continet would share exp. Cep would be the same as it always was.

If you dont want to share you could solo or join a mixed squad - pretty simple.

Maybe the more complicated platoons could work fine - but this would be simple and a big improvement.

1024 · 2003-07-15, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Bad Mojo
How do you represent 30 people on a map? A giant 30 might not be the best way.

THrough color coding. They talked about this in...i forgot. i think the voice interview a while back. They said that each squad would keep their #'s, but have a different color.

Bad Mojo · 2003-07-15, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf

Obviously they can't just flip a switch but since it's been one of the, if not the, most anticipated features since Beta, hell one of the founding ideas of my outfit was 3 platoons working in harmony, they've had ample time to do all of the above.

How anticipted it is doesn't make it any more or less difficult to add to the game.

How you designed your outfit doesn't make platoons any more or less difficult to add to the game.

And I'm really curious how you know that the PS dev team has had plenty of time to add it? Do you work there? Can you see them twiddling their thumbs and saying, "Let's add platoons later, I'm tired of working."?