F2P Discussion and Buying Value - Page 2

VanstK · 2012-06-18, 05:19 AM

I see a cash shop like this: Is it something that directly increases your combat ability? If so, it should be earnable through playing the bloody game, with the option of buying it for real money. Is it a purely cosmetic/vanity upgrade? Cash-only's fine, it won't affect how fast you kill dudes.

I'd gladly pay to put zebra camo, a hood ornament like this one, and a horn like this on a Lightning. That'd add plenty of value to my gaming experience, lemme tell you.

Stew · 2012-06-18, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by ParisTeta

So first, this is not good vs bad debate. For me, overall it is good. I want to discuss something else.

What is your Idea?

P.S.: I really consider leaving some money when i don`t like the monthly subscription, if i enjoy that game so much, but i don`t wanna feel robbed.

iam not for boosters thats much i think Booster should have to be limited like 1 boost of 24 hours per weeks or something

this will prevent big Money to make their way on top to easily

I dont want to pay for boosters i want cosmetics and cool stuff like golden pistol etc.. Clan outfit symbole integration thats sort of thing !

booster are lame if they can be abuse so i hope they will put a limitation on those for each accont !

Otleaz · 2012-06-18, 05:39 AM

If you look at league of legends they have a pretty satisfying system in place. They release a 6300ip champion every two weeks, and a competitive player could easily earn 10000ip in that time. This leaves competitive players with little reason to get boosters, which keeps everybody happy.

In other words, if you see competitive players using boosters, SOMETHING IS WRONG. Someone who plays the game for 4-6 hours a day should have no problem buying the vehicles and weapons they want, otherwise you are selling power.

Daffan · 2012-06-18, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by ParisTeta

A full price game is around 60 bugs right?

Which bugs again?

Popper · 2012-06-18, 06:37 AM

One group of items that could go well with a F2P game like PS2 is convenience items, like setup slots. The ability to store different gear, weapon and vehicle loadouts so you can reduce the downtime between combat deployments.

The ability to carry more ammo, grenades, etc.

You thinking about possible income in a F2P game is too limited.

Dagron · 2012-06-18, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by Popper

One group of items that could go well with a F2P game like PS2 is convenience items, like setup slots. The ability to store different gear, weapon and vehicle loadouts so you can reduce the downtime between combat deployments.

I agree 100% with this part.

But this:

Originally Posted by Popper

The ability to carry more ammo, grenades, etc.

... would be more than convenience, it would allow people to spam bullets and grenades much more, effectively making them more deadly. So, no to that imo.

Hmr85 · 2012-06-18, 07:12 AM

I will be doing the sub if there ends up being one. Also I'll be buying up the camos. I fully intend to do my part to support this game. As time goes on they will release new content into the store. Any additional armor designs will be something I know myself I'll get along with any old ps1 skins that have been updated.

As others mentioned above just rotate in and out of a sub a month here or a month there that way you are still contributing to the game.

ParisTeta · 2012-06-18, 12:28 PM

Some Arguments are "for other games you would pay x amount in subscription"
The "game is free, so you buy the game with the skins"
and the service arguments "Buy Chartrans, name change etc."

And then many people try to defend P2P, which is not the problem, it is good that way, what i`m asking is, how to spend money, so it is not a rip off.

PS2 has no subscription (needed not optional), other games do, if PS2 had one, would ich change my min? Yes totally different circumstance, that is not really compareable. I buy something new in my hobby categorie --> sub categorie Games.

The Game is free, i`ll "own" it already, publisher hopes to finance it through p2p especially skins, but i don`t owe them any, it is a completly new choice if i should spend money in their shop. Imaging, public transport for free, and you like traveling so much, you want to buy a Scooter in there Shop, which they offer, just it cost as much as a car would, do you feel obligated, because you use public transport for free, to buy the scooter for the price of car?

The "Buy boosters, it`s take a long time to cert all" You won`t cert all, you`ll cert first the important things, which will be around a Vehiclke and fav Soldierclass. For me, it will be Scythe and LA. After that, the Cert are somewhat meaningless because they hardly effect me, so getting all Certs isn`t that important.

When i decide, i want to spend money on their shop, i want to get value! And not feeling ripped off. I don`t want buy (to much) strength (boosters are somewhat strength) on the shop, look at m example, vehicle in/out animations.

Sifer2 · 2012-06-18, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by indirect

Want to pay to support, but don't like anything in the cash shop? Sub for a month or two then unsub.

The thing that scares me is F2P are not really judged like that by their creators. They are judged much like subscription games based on how much revenue they generate per month. SOE may look at how you spent 60 dollars on stuff at launch but have spent nothing since then, and see that as a failure. Meaning they will add more stuff to buy. It's why I don't like this business model personally. Because you are never sure where you stand as a customer. How much content you will be entitled to from month to month.

There was a video by a guy that worked on Battlefield Heroes that really went into this sort of thing in great detail if you have the time to watch. About how 20% of the games population love cosmetic items and the other 80% could care less. And how about 18% WANT to be able to buy power over other players. And most sadly of all how introducting advantage giving items does not actually result in everyone boycotting the game. They just ***** about it but buy the items an keep playing. The problem with gamers to day in a nutshell pretty much.

Here is that video for anyone interested. Fascinating, and scary when you consider how it very well could apply to PS2 one day if revenue per month gets low:

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

ParisTeta · 2012-06-18, 05:32 PM

Interesting Video, but also very bleak one for a consumer base.

kaffis · 2012-06-18, 05:43 PM

Discussing specifics for cash shop value is really hard at this point -- we don't how the items will be setup.

Sure, you can buy zebra camo. But is that zebra camo for one class only? Gun camo(s) sold separately? Or is it access to the texture for everything you're allowed to slap it on?

Because the price points that will sell well are vastly different between the two possibilities.

Now, to talk about it in broader generalities... SOE has two target markets that it's catering to and must design its monetization around:
MMO players and FPS players. Sure, there's some overlap between the actual genres, but I'm just using these as labels for people who consider a subscription for a game an acceptable (ongoing) expense to play, and people who are not comfortable with that, and will reject that expense in favor of a box purchase with free online play.

SOE knows this -- one of the big reasons Planetside 1's user-base dropped off as quickly (in the MMO world, especially at the time) as it did is that they underestimated the significance of that divide, and the two sets of players (players comfortable with a subscription and FPS fans) hadn't blurred as much as they'd anticipated.

That line's a lot more blurry now -- in fact, today it's probably more of a spectrum of "acceptable monthly cost" for different gamers, with big clumps around the "$0", "$60 initial, $0 ongoing", and "$15/month + an initial purchase" points of the spectrum.

A F2P with cash shop has the potential to provide satisfying options for all 3 of those major groupings, which represent pirates and ad-supported gamers, traditional box gamers, and MMO gamers, respectively. The first group will simply play the game with no purchases from the shop, marveling at how he's getting such an awesome game for free, and doing it legitimately, even! The second group will find an awesome FPS, and maybe (or maybe not) settle into a preferred playstyle, and trick out just that playstyle with customization (cosmetic or early unlocks) that he likes, up to his arbitrary budget for a game. The third group will indulge themselves with changing looks, trying out various weapons and attachments, and buying boosters based on a monthly budget.

The trick, then, is finding the price point that works best for all three of these spending patterns. (Or, more likely, the latter two)

Valve's experience in this matter suggests they've had a lot of experience with price points in the $1-5 range. That jives pretty well with my expectations. I'd actually argue that the price you sell something for is more important than the perceived value per dollar. $1 is an impulse buy. $10 isn't. Price something at a dollar, and people will buy ten of them with far less thought than they'd put into one $10 bundle of ten items.

Synapse · 2012-06-18, 05:44 PM

Sound packs!

Sell taunts, sell heckling soundpacks, record devs responses to various actions you make in the game and sell it.

:T-Ray voicepack: I'm gonna keep asking till I get it!
http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...ad.php?t=42720

Also new announcer voices!

Sifer2 · 2012-06-18, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by ParisTeta

Interesting Video, but also very bleak one for a consumer base.

Yeah I agree. Thing is I want to disagree with that guy, and say the reason people didn't quit playing the game after it went pay 2 win was because they had played it for a while, and were already addicted. But then that doesn't make me feel any better since that could easily apply to most of us that will play PS2. I mean if we have playing PS2 for over a year, and we have our outfits were loyal to, and really play the game regularly. Can we honestly say were just going to quit playing it if SOE did the same thing an started adding payed weapons that do 20% more damage than standard? Because in the end if other stuff in the shop are not selling that's what they will do.

My hope is that they have thought it out better though. I think they will make the booster packs very desirable an while that is still sort of paying for power it at least doesn't break game balance.

Otleaz · 2012-06-18, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Sifer2

Can we honestly say were just going to quit playing it if SOE did the same thing an started adding payed weapons that do 20% more damage than standard?

Abso-fucking-lutely

The game would be off my hard drive before you could even fucking blink.

PhoenixDog · 2012-06-18, 11:12 PM

Think about it...How committed and dedicated a community as the Planetside community is...Do you really think SoE would fuck with us?

Hell, Radar mentioned this about us asking for a beta date

Originally Posted by RadarX

You guys are an extremely passionate community. We don't want to make a promise we aren't able to keep because a) we don't think it's the right way to treat your community and b) because I'm scared of what some of you might do.

You think if they're that terrified about missing beta...They'll give pay-for-power?