The Matrix Reloaded (Full Disclosure, read if you seen it) - Page 2

Araxis · 2003-05-16, 06:37 PM

In my opinion, Reloaded was as good as the first one. However, if someone were to say that it was better, I would disagree. If anything, it was better or worse than the first.

I'd have said it was better if it were not for ONE thing: dancing/sex scene. TOTALLY pointless. I understand this was their attempt at showing the close relationship between Neo and Trinity, but honestly, they shouldn't have done it. While I sat there at 11:15 on Wednesday, all I wondered was "what the hell am I doing here, this movie sucks" while that scene played.

However, it would make sense to me that they don't want anything very ... mushy, I guess is a good word, because they want it to be all sci-fi-non-girly-ish.

Navaron:
A) I also considered Trinity being pregnant.
B) Point of hot wife was because the French guy wasn't going to let them have the Keymaker; someone had to do it. No one else could have done that; and if you just had the French guy say yes, then there goes your WHOLE highway chase (one of the best parts of the movie).
C) Neo's hand wasn't the one bleeding; it was the guy at the very end who was the lone survivor. He had cut his hand twice with his knife right before he attempted to kill Neo. Why? No one honestly knows what's up with that guy, but I have a hunch he's sent by all the Xion leaders to kill Neo. That way Morpheus doesn't stop disobeying orders/leading other captains to leave Xion's defense just to help Morpheus.

Mistled:
A) Yes, the agent was Smith, although he's no longer an agent (which is why he sent Neo his little ear-piece). I don't quite understand him picking up the phone...but as I understand it, when Neo dove into Smith the first time, he ruined the Agent code inside of Smith, making Smith no longer an Agent. Then, Smith gets pissed because he has no purpose anymore (remember, Smith WAS an Agent program; without being an Agent, he's just nothing but a bugged program), and goes around trying to get back at Neo (because Neo was the one who made him have no purpose). He tries to "take over" Neo because that would make Neo neutral too (Neo's a program kinda, but his code is messed up, because of the Creator's anamoly (spelling) ).
B) I also don't know the answer to this... and I have no answer for this. Obviously, he used EMP-- where he got it from is anyone's guess.

Sorry bout the long post; figured it was time for one, and wanted to share my opinion anyway

. Plus, I'm a big Matrix fan-- in fact, I've gotta leave to go see Reloaded again. I'll try to pick up on things I missed before.

John Matrix · 2003-05-16, 06:45 PM

Something i was a little unsure about(someone brought a crying baby to the theatre) the twins,who were awsome,the french girl,his wife, their posse, and the keymaker, were all renegade programs that the matrix tried to delete, right?

OmnipotentKiwi · 2003-05-16, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by Araxis
C) Neo's hand wasn't the one bleeding; it was the guy at the very end who was the lone survivor. He had cut his hand twice with his knife right before he attempted to kill Neo. Why? No one honestly knows what's up with that guy, but I have a hunch he's sent by all the Xion leaders to kill Neo. That way Morpheus doesn't stop disobeying orders/leading other captains to leave Xion's defense just to help Morpheus.

Mistled:
A) Yes, the agent was Smith, although he's no longer an agent (which is why he sent Neo his little ear-piece). I don't quite understand him picking up the phone...but as I understand it, when Neo dove into Smith the first time, he ruined the Agent code inside of Smith, making Smith no longer an Agent. Then, Smith gets pissed because he has no purpose anymore (remember, Smith WAS an Agent program; without being an Agent, he's just nothing but a bugged program), and goes around trying to get back at Neo (because Neo was the one who made him have no purpose). He tries to "take over" Neo because that would make Neo neutral too (Neo's a program kinda, but his code is messed up, because of the Creator's anamoly (spelling) ).
B) I also don't know the answer to this... and I have no answer for this. Obviously, he used EMP-- where he got it from is anyone's guess.

C.) You are talking about two seperate things. Neo bled in the battle scene when getting the Keymaker. Why should he bleed when he knows it isn't real? The quote was also used "See? He's just human". As for the guy who was going to kill Neo, Mr. Smith "hacked" the guy by doing the whole sticking his fist in and making him multiply. In the Matrix he looks like Mr. Smith, but he still looks the same on the outside in the "real world". It also ties into the thought that the people from the "real world" are just programs within themselves.

A.) First, like I said Smith found a way to hack people and take control, so he can come back through the phone in their bodies. Secondly, Mr. Smith is holding a grudge because he sees a future where Neo tries to kill him, much like Neo can now see the future.
B.) It again leads to the thought that the real world isn't as real as it seems, since he was able to use his powers to stop the Sentinels.

OmnipotentKiwi · 2003-05-16, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by John Matrix
Something i was a little unsure about(someone brought a crying baby to the theatre) the twins,who were awsome,the french girl,his wife, their posse, and the keymaker, were all renegade programs that the matrix tried to delete, right?

Yes. And it also connected the fact that renegade programs often became folk/myth like ghosts (the twins).

�io · 2003-05-16, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled
... my answer.... this is all I can come up with without seeing it again to catch what I missed.... they are still in the matrix, even in Zion. It's like they were in the program, which they left, but are still in the shell program or something. So they've never really been free. Classic dream in a dream ending. Thoughts??

Yeah but then what would be the point of the sentinels trying to attack Zion? If they are still in the matrix they are still under the machines control, just to a lesser extent, i see no reason why the machines would have to attack people who aren't freed from their grasp. Besides dream in dream stories suck.

Actually my theory is just as Smith now as new abilities because Neo "hacked" him Neo now has new abilties because he visited the source code. By visiting the source he was embued with more power, the power to, as he should have, chose 15 people and start the matrix cycle over but since he didn't start it all over the matrix and Neo's powers still exist. It all comes down to this, by visiting the source he was in contact with all the programs, when he left the matrix he still had in him that contact with all the programs, including the sentinels, hence why he could sense and stop them. He's somewhat become the source himself. Well that's my theory at least.

As for Neo bleeding my theory is simply that despite his abilties he's still not a god(despite what his followers think

). He bleeds for the same reason that he gets hurt when Smith hits him or tried to hack him, he's amazing but not immortal, physical contact will still hurt him, if he would ever get shot i assume he would bleed, the bullet wouldn't just disapear.

One thing i didn't get is Neo said he can't read the matrix because they encrypted it with a new system(elevator scene before meeting Persephone and her husband) yet he can still do all his things and at the end he was able to read it anew to save Trin. So did he just decrypt it after the elevator scene? Or was the only encrypted part that building?

Also how did Smith enter the secret doors? Did he manage to hack that chinese guy or what?

�io · 2003-05-16, 07:49 PM

For your reading pleasure(thanks to Idaho on rottentomatoes.com

) :

*Neo walks towards the Oracle. She is sitting on a bench in a park, feeding birds*

The Oracle - Well, come on. I ain�t gonna bite you. Come around here, and let me have a look at you. My goodness, look at you! You turned out alright, didn�t you? How do you feel?

Neo - I, uhh...

The Oracle - I know you�re not sleeping. We�ll get to that. Why don�t you come and have a sit this time?

Neo - Maybe I�ll stand.

The Oracle - Well, suit your self.

*Neo hesitates at first, but then sits down on the bench*

Neo - I felt like sitting.

The Oracle - I know. So, let�s get the obvious stuff out of the way.

Neo - You�re not human, are you?

The Oracle - Well it�s tough to get any more obvious than that.

Neo - If I had to guess, I�d say you�re a program from the machine world.

*Neo looks over to Seraph*

Neo - So is he.

The Oracle - So far, so good.

Neo - But if that�s true, that can mean you are a part of this system, another kind of control.

The Oracle - Keep going.

Neo - I suppose the most obvious question is: how can I trust you?

The Oracle - Bingo! It is a pickle, no doubt about it. The bad news is that there�s no way you can really know if I�m here to help you or not. So, it�s really up to you. You just have to make up your own damn mind to either accept what I�m going to tell you, or reject it.

*The Oracle reaches into her bag and pulls out a red candy*

The Oracle - Candy?

Neo - You already know if I�m going to take it.

The Oracle - I wouldn�t be much of an oracle if I didn�t.

Neo - But if you already know, how can I make a choice?

The Oracle -Because you didn�t come here to make a choice, you�ve already made it. You�re here to try to understand why you made it.

*Neo takes the candy*

The Oracle - I thought you would have figured that out by now.

Neo - Why are you here?

The Oracle - Same reason. I love candy. *the Oracle eats one of the red candies*

Neo - But why help us?

The Oracle -We�re all here to do what we�re all here to do. I�m interested in one thing, Neo: the future. And believe me, I know, the only way to get there is together.

Neo - Are there other programs like you?

The Oracle - Oh, well, not like me. But... look, see those birds? At some point a program was written to govern them. A program was written to watch over the trees, and the wind, the sunrise, and sunset. There are programs running all over the place. The ones doing there job, doing what they were meant to do, are invisible. You�d never even know they were here. But the other ones, well, we hear about them all the time.

Neo - I�ve never heard of them.

The Oracle - Oh, of course you have. Every time you�ve heard someone say they saw a ghost, or an angel. Every story you�ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens, is the system assimilating some program that�s doing something they�re not supposed to be doing.

Neo - Programs hacking programs? Why?

The Oracle - They have there reasons, but usually a program choose exile when it faces deletion.

Neo - Why would a program be deleted?

The Oracle - Maybe it breaks down. Maybe a better program is created to replace it. It happens all the time, and when it does, a program can either choose to hide here, or return to the source.

Neo - The machine mainframe?

The Oracle - Yes, where you must go, where the path of the one ends. You�ve seen it, in your dreams. Haven�t you? The door made of light?

*Neo nods*

The Oracle - What happens when you go through the door?

Neo - I see Trinity, and something happens, something bad. She starts to fall, and then I wake up.

The Oracle - Do you see her die?

Neo - No.

The Oracle - You have the sight now, Neo. You are looking at the world without time.

Neo - Then why can�t I see what happens to her?

The Oracle - We can never see past the choices we don�t understand.

Neo - Are you saying I have to choose whether Trinity lives or dies?

The Oracle - No. You�ve already made the choice, now you have to understand it.

*Neo shakes his head*

Neo - No, I can�t do that. I won�t.

The Oracle - You have to.

Neo - Why?

The Oracle - Because you�re the one.

Neo - What if I can�t? What happens if I fail?

The Oracle - Then Zion will fall.

*Seraph places his hand on The Oracles shoulder. The Oracle and Seraph nod to each other.*

The Oracle - Our time is up. Listen to me Neo, you can save Zion if you reach the source, but to do that you will need the Keymaker.

Neo - The Keymaker?

The Oracle - Yes, he disappeared sometime ago. We did not know what happened to him until now. He�s being held prisoner by a very dangerous program, one of the oldest of us. He is called the Merovingian, and he will not let him go willingly.

Neo - What does he want?

The Oracle - What do all men with power want? More power.

*The Oracle hands Neo a piece of paper*

The Oracle - Be there, at that exact time, and you will have a chance.

Seraph - We must go.

The Oracle - It seems like every time we meet, I�ve got nothing but bad news. I�m sorry about that, I surely am. But for what it�s worth, you�ve made a believer out of me.

*The Oracle pats Neo�s arm*

The Oracle - Good luck kiddo.

*Seraph takes the Oracle away*

�io · 2003-05-16, 07:51 PM

Dialogue between Neo and the Architect
The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I�ve been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven�t answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: �Others? What others? How many? Answer me!�*

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: �Five versions? Three? I�ve been lied too. This is bull****.*

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly�s systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: �You can�t control me! **** you! I�m going to kill you! You can�t make me do anything!*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: �Bull****!�*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won�t let it happen, you can�t. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you�re going to do, don�t we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don�t meet again.

The Architect - We won�t.

MrVicchio · 2003-05-16, 09:17 PM

Don't you guys GET IT? The Oracle didn't give Neo Candy, (or a cookie the first time) she gave him a PROGRAM to MAKE him do her bidding. Note the French Man and the pie. DUH.

OmnipotentKiwi · 2003-05-16, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by MrVicchio
Don't you guys GET IT? The Oracle didn't give Neo Candy, (or a cookie the first time) she gave him a PROGRAM to MAKE him do her bidding. Note the French Man and the pie. DUH.

OOoh, good twist. Maybe it is how he got his powers in the real world.

Vis Armata · 2003-05-16, 09:25 PM

I didn't actually see Neo eat the candy though, so...

Navaron · 2003-05-16, 09:45 PM

Holy shitballs Vic, I never thought of that, makes the pie mean a hell of alot more.

OdlyEnuf · 2003-05-20, 02:19 PM

The "real" world is not going to be another Matrix, in my mind.

Smith gained some sort of power in the first movie, when Neo entered his body and attempted to destroy him. It is possible Neo experienced some sort of change aswell, i.e. him being able to stop the sentinels at the end of the movie.

But, what i really found interesting was. The 6 previous times Zion had fallen, an "anomally" "The One" had entered the architects room, and chose the other door in order to save the human race.

Neo, chose the other door. Why? His love for Trinity, and his faith in the people of Zion. NOW that is the part where the Oracle plays a gigantic part. The Oracle tells Trinity that she will fall in love with The One, Neo. Has she been manipulating Neo and Trinity to produce a One who was too emotionally attached to a single individual to cooperate in the destruction of Zion?

Over analyzed maybe, but its a fucking action movie that you have to think about I LOVE IT.

�io · 2003-05-20, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by OdlyEnuf
The "real" world is not going to be another Matrix, in my mind.

Smith gained some sort of power in the first movie, when Neo entered his body and attempted to destroy him. It is possible Neo experienced some sort of change aswell, i.e. him being able to stop the sentinels at the end of the movie.

Well like i said previously they way i see it is that by visiting the source Neo was in contact with all the programs, when he left the matrix he still had in him that contact with all the programs, including the sentinels, hence why he could sense and stop them. He's somewhat become the source himself. Makes more sense than the matrix in matrix thing anyway.

Neo, chose the other door. Why? His love for Trinity, and his faith in the people of Zion. NOW that is the part where the Oracle plays a gigantic part. The Oracle tells Trinity that she will fall in love with The One, Neo. Has she been manipulating Neo and Trinity to produce a One who was too emotionally attached to a single individual to cooperate in the destruction of Zion?

Very good point to disprove the whole oracle = evil thing.

Robot · 2003-05-20, 02:34 PM

The entire movie played like a video game

Go to this place, meet this person, get attacked, fight off tough people, go to this place, meet this person...

I think the main reason why people didn't like it as much as the matrix is because Neo is essentially, "god." We all know this. We all know he will never be killed. Unlike in the original Matrix, where he was getting beaten around like a sack full of olive loaf

Derv · 2003-05-20, 02:46 PM

The pie that the French dude had the woman eat made her have an orgasm, right?

And btw, I don't understand why you guys are saying that the French dude's wife was pointless... She was the reason that Neo was able to get the keymaker, due to the French dude having affairs with other women making his wife pissed off. Therefore, instead of having to give the French dude more power, which they could not have done, they got in by using his weakness, which was his faithlessness.

The sex scene with Neo and Trinity.... umm yea... I would have rather seen some of Trinity's ass than Neo's, wtf! Man ass = no.

And finally, did anyone else find it difficult to understand a lot of what the Architect was saying? I could get the jist of it, but damn I had to really listen and use my brain during that scene, which made me angry