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2012-09-06, 09:54 AM | [Ignore Me] #32 | |||
First Sergeant
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We are "betting" on the backs of a large percentage of people who will not be able to vote on the possibility that election fraud is "worse than assumed." |
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2012-09-06, 01:08 PM | [Ignore Me] #33 | |||
Lieutenant General
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Unless of course you deliberately make getting an ID impossible for groups of voters you don't want to vote because you're one of two parties who likes to stay in power. But passes aren't expensive. If they're made to be expensive and for that reason unattainable then you're looking at a corrupt local state government that should be voted out of office asap. Voting is a right, after all, not a bought right. |
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2012-09-06, 01:12 PM | [Ignore Me] #34 | |||
Master Sergeant
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There isnt a large percentage, it is extremely small, most places allow them to vote anyways, and they just have to provide other proof, like utility bill and birth cert for it to count. It's held to the side. There is no RIGHT to vote in the US. |
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2012-09-06, 03:31 PM | [Ignore Me] #36 | ||||
First Sergeant
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What do fake illegal ids have to do with the voter id law(s)? That there is illegal shit that goes on in this country? When you show me evidence that proves it is worth disenfranchising even a "small percentage" of people in order to combat voter fraud...then I'll concede.
Not everyone follows politics. They aren't sending out letters informing the public on what is required. Many, many people are without the right form of identification. Some have IDs that are expired, lost, incorrect address etc. etc. Some college kids just don't have one. Some who are older haven't had to worry about it for years. |
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2012-09-06, 04:25 PM | [Ignore Me] #38 | |||
Master Sergeant
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http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...voter-id-laws/ is the closest I could find to verifiable cases of voters being denied. 9, out of 21 million....you'd think there'd be a website full of thousands listed....wouldnt there? |
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2012-09-06, 05:35 PM | [Ignore Me] #39 | |||
First Sergeant
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http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...s-voter-fraud/ "You'd think there'd be a website full of thousands of voter fraud" to justify stopping those 9 people from voting. But there isn't. Also, I posted a site earlier that show statistics of the amount of people in Wisconsin that do not have the right form of ID. More people vote in the presidential election than they do in primaries. We will see how many are stopped from voting this November. |
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2012-09-06, 07:08 PM | [Ignore Me] #41 | ||
Lieutenant General
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If the issue is short term pre-elections changing rules to suddenly require something, fine, that is sad. Your states should not have different rules for federal elections though. They represent the citizens of the nation, not the states.
Btw. It is pretty stupid IMO to have presidential elections, it always leads to just two choices. The way we select our prime minister is by first having proportional elections for parliament. Parliament then creates a government coalition. Then the minister posts are distributed among the parties, usualy proportionaly though there are exceptions depending on how negotiations went. Typically the leader of the coalition's biggest party becomes prime minister. Sometimes they stay fraction leader in parliament and someone else from their party becomes prime minister. Rarely someone from another party is chosen, although it might happen in exchange for more ministrial posts, though that is unlikely. This way you get a prime minister that doesn't face a hostile parliament. Of course our monarch is above the parties and is not allowed to suggest their prefered party, but till recently they did suggest which coalition formations should be considered first (it is tradition that the biggest party gets to start negotiations, should they fail, the second biggest can try. To ensure something happens even in a splintered landscape, the monarch used to make some suggestions based on the feedback received from each individual coalition member. Not being tied to a party, the monarch can have more strategic information from each party to make suggestions on how to proceed and to apply some pressure or force some openings if it takes too long). Of course monarchs aren't always a good thing, but we're pretty content with the ones we have had so far. They are constitutionalised of course, so the power lies with the populace first and foremost. It is however nice to not have money wasting election campaigns for both presidents and parties and that there are more than two options for prime ministers. If you elect presidents directly, you always get a first past the post system that leads to just two candidates. Unless you let people give a wider choice by giving them two votes and more choices to pick from then two. That is the system the libdems in the UK want. |
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2012-09-06, 08:37 PM | [Ignore Me] #42 | |||
First Sergeant
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Agreed. I'm not saying there is something evil behind the ID practice...it is how it is being executed that I begin to take issue. |
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2012-09-07, 09:12 AM | [Ignore Me] #43 | |||
Master Sergeant
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I do believe that Tn had a very high primary turn out this year. I know the early voting was higher than normal for sure. |
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2012-09-07, 10:44 AM | [Ignore Me] #44 | |||
First Sergeant
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I posted statistics that did have to do with voter fraud(The % of those without the correct form of ID). |
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2012-09-07, 11:06 AM | [Ignore Me] #45 | ||
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