Flying: What are the best tools out there? - Page 3

SKYeXile · 2012-07-17, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Many people have complained about it being difficult to track a target, and I know that isn't everyone. If you're really pro at it then that's great. I used a joystick in BF2 for the majority of my time playing it until I realized using the mouse is much more convenient and accurate. Yes, just my opinion. The same carried over to BF3.

But realize that you also said earlier in the thread that when flying there is no substitute for a stick. Don't call me out on saying that when you didn't take your own advice

The fact is a mouse is faster and much more responsive, moving your wrist or your fingers is far faster and more accurate than arm movements to control a stick. if you set your joystick up with multiple modes and sensitivity settings you might be able to compensate for this otherwise its simply not going to be as good as a mouse for accuracy or precision movement.

also it should be rather simple to setup foot petals or use a G13 to roll accurately while still having the mouse control your aim, WHAT SAY YOU ALL THEN?

disky · 2012-07-17, 11:02 PM

I have that same Logitech stick, and I rarely use it, but when I do it works great. I think a couple of the panel buttons have become a little difficult, but the throttle and the stick itself (and all of the buttons on it, including the hat) are totally fine and have been for years.

I plan on using it quite a bit in PS2.

Zulthus · 2012-07-17, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

The fact is a mouse is faster and much more responsive, moving your wrist or your fingers is far faster and more accurate than arm movements to control a stick. if you set your joystick up with multiple modes and sensitivity settings you might be able to compensate for this otherwise its simply not going to be as good as a mouse for accuracy or precision movement.

also it should be rather simple to setup foot petals or use a G13 to roll accurately while still having the mouse control your aim, WHAT SAY YOU ALL THEN?

That's what I'm sayin', but no one wants to believe me

Opinion doesn't matter here, the mouse just is factually more responsive and accurate than a joystick. That doesn't make it better in every situation.

disky · 2012-07-17, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

That's what I'm sayin', but no one wants to believe me

Opinion doesn't matter here, the mouse just is factually more responsive and accurate than a joystick. That doesn't make it better in every situation.

Your accuracy with a tool is based on your proficiency with the tool. There is room for debate.

Zulthus · 2012-07-17, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by disky

Your accuracy with a tool is based on your proficiency with the tool. There is room for debate.

Here's an extremely simple test;

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/248011

Play this with a joystick. Compare it to a mouse. Which is easier/faster?

SgtExo · 2012-07-17, 11:33 PM

I have used the same joystick for 8 years since I bought BF 1942 and I have been an ace in the skies since then in airplanes and choppers. I have never been successful at flying with a mouse and keyboard, but if you learn to fly with those then you will naturally be better with it. The only thing that I'm worried is about the hovering and how it will map with my joystick. Flying a chopper or a plane is easy, but VTOL aircraft are always trickier when you only have one thrust control axis. In ARMA2 I used the menus auto hover option to start the hover, and in BF2 and 3 it was the negative thrust axis that controlled it, but I'm wondering how it works and can't wait to test it out in beta.

I'm just a bit sad all that all the aircraft are VOTLs because I really like way a helicopter feels while flying and I am very good at strafing circles around a target and outmaneuvering other opponents. I guess we will have to see how the aircraft's hover in this game.

Sledgecrushr · 2012-07-17, 11:37 PM

I think its mostly going to boil down to throttle control its the main reason why Ive gone ahead and bought a hotas stick.

disky · 2012-07-17, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Here's an extremely simple test;

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/248011

Play this with a joystick. Compare it to a mouse. Which is easier/faster?

I use a mouse far more often than I do a joystick, so of course it's going to be easier. If I spent my life using a joystick for all navigation, and my joystick was sensitive enough, then it is likely that I would be just as proficient navigating the maze as a mouse user. It's all dependent on proficiency.

Zulthus · 2012-07-17, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by disky

I use a mouse far more often than I do a joystick, so of course it's going to be easier. If I spent my life using a joystick for all navigation, and my joystick was sensitive enough, then it is likely that I would be just as proficient navigating the maze as a mouse user. It's all dependent on proficiency.

I disagree, but it seems we just have our preferences. I don't think anyone will ever be able to do that game faster than a mouse, no matter their proficiency with it. They just aren't built for it.

DirtyBird · 2012-07-18, 12:00 AM

Good question from the OP, I've never flown and figured in PS2 its something that I might focus on.
Plenty of handy feedback in the thread.

maradine · 2012-07-18, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Here's an extremely simple test;

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/248011

Play this with a joystick. Compare it to a mouse. Which is easier/faster?

Here is a canvas. Paint it with a toothpick. Compare it to a brush. Which is easier/faster?

The technical term for that is a strawman. No one has asserted that a mouse is inferior to tasks of fine pointer maneuvering. The chorus has asserted that fine pointer maneuvering is orthogonal to dogfighting.

And the formal term for that last sentence is Argumentum ad populum.

Zulthus · 2012-07-18, 12:19 AM

-edit- know what nevermind, I've had this exact same debate in about ten other mouse vs joystick threads, no point in debating it again. You prefer joysticks, I prefer mice.

Shade Millith · 2012-07-18, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Shooting from an aircraft is always easier with a mouse. Don't deny it. It's so much more precise. None of that 'sniping' crap, in general dogfights, the mouse has an advantage over the stick in accuracy. That applies not only to shooting but to adjustments in direction as well.

Your advantages with a flight stick include better overall movement (large turns, barrel rolls, etc.) and the fact that you don't have to move your mouse everywhere. You, however, will have a very hard time hitting me in my jet because fine tuning your shot is extremely difficult with a stick.

Fixed that for you (I'm pretty sure that's what your were trying to say.)

And I agree.

Stick is better for flight maneuvers.

Mouse is better for fine aiming.

Zulthus · 2012-07-18, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by Shade Millith

Fixed that for you (I'm pretty sure that's what your were trying to say.)

And I agree.

Stick is better for flight maneuvers.

Mouse is better for fine aiming.

Ouch, that's embarrassing.

I was so caught up in the moment. Thanks for pointing that out.

Dubious · 2012-07-18, 12:56 AM

regarding trackballs...

how do you effectively shoot and move at same time?
Dont you like use the index? finger to click the mouse and move the ball?
Ive never tried a trackball and have no idea how it works