Tweet hints at FPS numbers

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by cryosin

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but how well do you think my comp could handle PS2?

Its an HP Envy:
Core i5 Dual Core w/ HT
4GB Ram
Radeon 5650 1GB(Dedicated/2GB Shared)

I can handle most new games on low-med settings, but i know PS2 is going to require a lot.

And does quad core vs Dual Core matter?

I'd guess low/med settings for PS2. The GPU might need an upgrade, but maybe not.

Best place for this conversation would probably be the tech forum.

[Arius]

Originally Posted by headcrab13

I'll buy whatever hardware it takes

Not me. If Sony wants alot of people to play it, they better make mid range computers run it smoothly aswell.

[Goku]

Originally Posted by cryosin

Sorry if this is the wrong thread, but how well do you think my comp could handle PS2?

Its an HP Envy:
Core i5 Dual Core w/ HT
4GB Ram
Radeon 5650 1GB(Dedicated/2GB Shared)

I can handle most new games on low-med settings, but i know PS2 is going to require a lot.

And does quad core vs Dual Core matter?

Probably lower settings it can. Still don't have the specs yet is all.

[SniperSteve]

FPS games need to be above 60FPS at all times to ensure smoothness. Ideally you want 120 for the fastest feeling response, but 60 is normally okay for most people. If a game goes below 60 I can certainly feel the difference. (I don't know if I see the difference so much as feel it)

[Figment]

Originally Posted by CyclesMcHurtz

I remember running my 286/12 (with a Turbo button!) off floppies as well. And then installing the 20Meg hard disk with DOS 3.2! I even had EGA graphics!

Hercules graphics to play Jumpjet!


I remember our old MSX: keyboard, floppy drive and pc in one! :x

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by CyclesMcHurtz

I remember running my 286/12 (with a Turbo button!) off floppies as well. And then installing the 20Meg hard disk with DOS 3.2! I even had EGA graphics!

I still have my amber monochrome 12 inch monitor somewheres.

[Yutty]

if i can get the game to not drop below 40fps in huge battles with lots of particle effects, lights, and explosions, with shadows on i'll be satisfied.

[BlazingSun]

Originally Posted by Shogun

i can top (or bottom?) this
my first pc only had cga graphics! 4 colors, yeah! it was a 8086
man was i proud, when i got an ega graphics card and could play indiana jones in 32 colors !

One of the first PC games that I played was Indiana Jones: The last crusade .. played it on a 286 with a black and white 12" monitor or something. That game was really tough as you couldn't see shit on that monitor

[Lokster]

I'll throw some updates on my BEAST if necessary to ensure I'm seeing these numbers.

120fps on a new gen engine with the quality of atmosphere I am seeing in those screens is quite frankly AMAZING.

I absolutely cannot wait!

[headcrab13]

Originally Posted by Arius

Not me. If Sony wants alot of people to play it, they better make mid range computers run it smoothly aswell.

Oh yeah, you'll definitely be able to play on a mid-range. As I said in my second post, this is an MMO and they need to appeal to the masses, hardware-wise.

The reason I'm building a machine specifically for PS2 is that I want to see what we're seeing in these max-settings screenshots, all the time and in fluid motion. I'm also going to take HD gameplay footage and put out fan videos to get even more people in on the action.

[CyclesMcHurtz]

Originally Posted by kaffis

... If game engines were written with shaders or something that could apply motion blur to individual frames, the quest for maximum framerate would be a lot less of a problem, and we could get away with movie/TV-level framerates (and lower! individuals who get bothered/notice even 20 fps when properly motion blurred are *rare* -- most people's perception limits are in the 15-17 range). The exciting thing is, I think GPU hardware is catching up to the processing requirements to make that a practical engine feature for real-time rendering, so we may actually see engines do this in the near future.

You should be even more excited - Motion Blur is not new technology for video games. It started appearing in around 2005 and has been in some games and not others. Gears of War, Sonic the Hedgehog, and Mirrors Edge are just a few of the better done ones (not referring to game-play, just motion blur).

[ Warning - technical content below ]

As for the quest for maximum frame rate ... it's really a matter of responsiveness. At 20fps the game is taking 50ms to display a frame. On your typical console (most are different in PC's in a key way, noted below) this results in about 100ms-110ms lag time between user input and action on screen. This is very noticeable.

[shoot] -> [ CPU work (50ms) ] -> [ GPU work (50ms) ] -> [ Display! ]

The reason I singled out consoles is because the typical PC these days has additional latency and measuring it for individual games is difficult. Most DirectX devices can queue up to 3 frames of graphics, resulting in 150ms (again, referencing 20fps only here) for just rendering lag, an additional 50ms for the game to figure out what to draw, resulting in a worst case of 200ms (substantially more). You can see this in your graphics control panel for your video card under something like "Manage your 3D settings --> pre-rendered frames". Most of the time this is set to 3. This can (doesn't always) turn into:

[shoot] -> [ CPU work (50ms) ] -> [ GPU queue 1 (50ms) ] -> [ GPU queue 2 (50ms) ]-> [ GPU queue 3 (50ms) ]-> [ Display! ]

This queue is designed to 'absorb' spikes in CPU time - the CPU is usually not the bottleneck and can quickly recover. High-quality coders know how to manage this latency well and can control it on the PC. The additional benefit to multi-GPU systems is you can reduce this time by half (if the CPU can keep up) because each video card can do work on a different frame which allows them to stagger over time. You can get up to about 90% increase in frame rate with these systems. Note 50ms was cut out, but the same number of frames were rendered below which means the FRAME RATE increased, but the LATENCY didnt' change:

[shoot] -> [ CPU work (50ms) ] -> [ GPU queue 1 (50ms) ] 
                                            -> [ GPU queue 2 (50ms) ]
                                                         -> [ GPU queue 3 (50ms) ]-> [ Display! ]

You can also have strange effects due to poor multi-CPU usage. If a theoretical n00b coder puts the game code into four distinct functions, each around the same time and runs them on four different CPU's, the frame rate may be fast but since each function depends upon the result of the previous function - and that's going to take four whole frames to process. The result is that if this theoretical system was running at our 20fps, then with the 3 pre-rendered frames queued up and the four-frame latency in place you are looking at (4 cpu + 3 GPU + 1 display)*50ms latency - almost a HALF SECOND from when you clicked fire to when the shot happens on screen. The frame rate is STILL 20fps, however.

[Input (cpu 1)] 
   -> [Game Logic (cpu 2)]
         -> [Physics (cpu 3)]
               -> [Render Magic (cpu 4)]
                     -> [GPU Queue 1]
                           -> [GPU Queue 2]
                                 -> [GPU Queue 3] -> [Display!]

Even a game running at 60fps would feel laggy with this (worst case) coding (4 cpu + 3 GPU + 1 display)*16ms = 128ms latency - looks like 60fps, feels like 8fps.

Fortunately, I haven't met any coders on FPS games who think this would be acceptable.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled troll... er, forum reading.

[SniperSteve]

Nice Post

[cryosin]

Originally Posted by Vancha

I'd guess low/med settings for PS2. The GPU might need an upgrade, but maybe not.

Best place for this conversation would probably be the tech forum.

Its a laptop so i can't upgrade =\.

I have an old desktop with an 8800gt but it needs a mobo/cpu/ram upgrade(and probably a PSU along that).

I dont have $700+ to spend on a new comp but i really wanna lag free PS2 experience =(

[Chefkoch]

Originally Posted by CViolet

I also remember me and my friend gawking at a PC magazine article about the very first ever consumer 1gb hard drive. His comment was "That's all the memory you would ever need."

Thats exactly what i thought when i bought my first 1gb drive ages ago !!

Or watching Rebel Assault Cutscenes for the first time....wow that CD-1x Drive was well worth it

[NCLynx]

Speaking of numbers, my Station Cash is increasing in numbers and I'd like to spend it. On planetside 2 stuff. Now. Please.