Magrider Main Cannon... - Page 3

WorldOfForms · 2012-04-30, 01:46 PM

Actually, if the mag can drive backwards at full speed, it will have a huge advantage - probably too much of one.

Don't forget, the devs have said that tanks have a weak spot in the rear. So now imagine a vanguard chasing a retreating mag that can face it with full armor, then imagine what happens when a mag chases a retreating vanguard.

So it's delicate to balance - slow reverse on the mag makes it weak tank vs tank, while too fast reverse and it's overpowered. I think its reverse should be close to forward speed, but not quite. Maybe 80-90% of forward speed, and then adjust as needed during beta.

KrazeyVIII · 2012-04-30, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Erendil

if:

It can rotate in place as fast as the other MBT's can rotate their turret, and
it has the same top speed when strafing left/right and going in reverse as it does moving forward, and
the game's Physics allow the Mag to conserve its momentum so it can keep moving in one direction while it rotates to deal with threats to either side or behind it, and
the Mag's acceleration is fast enough to allow it to change directions as fast as a treaded MBT. Preferrably faster since it's supposed to be the most maneuverable MBT.

Laughed.

The only thing in this list that should be put into the game is for the tank to keep its momentum. Everything else listed would flat out break the vehicle for balance.

The Mag was my favorite tank in PS1 and already looks to be my favorite in PS2. It was incredibly easy to dip in and out of fights to deal damage while receiving very little back. The gunner turret made life very easy to aim and deal consistent damage and the driver turret allowed you to do high amounts of DPS as you charge in. If momentum was added then you could continue to DPS as you charged through enemy lines shooting backwards.

All I see in this thread is a bunch of unwarranted QQ. The Magrider will be a feared tank as it always was, you just can't play it like it's a Vanguard or Prowler.

Sirisian · 2012-04-30, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by KrazeyVIII

All I see in this thread is a bunch of unwarranted QQ. The Magrider will be a feared tank as it always was, you just can't play it like it's a Vanguard or Prowler.

I really feel this last point is what's going to make it unbalanceable. We saw in Planetside 1 how hard it was for the developers to balance a weapons/vehicles that played totally opposite to other factions. The Magrider will probably end up that way; gimped in certain situations and overpowered in others. Would prefer just a balanced Magrider.

Xyntech · 2012-04-30, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Raymac

It's cute that we are already getting "buff the VS" threads.

Aaaand it didn't take long for it to start turning into a "nerf the VS" thread either.

Considering we don't actually know what stats and performance the current Magrider actually has, any talk of the sky falling if it's this way or that is pretty meaningless.

I'm more optimistic than Sirisian that a balance will be struck, but whether it's overpowered and deserves a nerf or is underpowered and deserves a buff, we really just need to get our hands on them (and the other tanks) to see for ourselves in a real world situation.

Erendil · 2012-04-30, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by KrazeyVIII

Laughed.

The only thing in this list that should be put into the game is for the tank to keep its momentum. Everything else listed would flat out break the vehicle for balance.

The Mag was my favorite tank in PS1 and already looks to be my favorite in PS2. It was incredibly easy to dip in and out of fights to deal damage while receiving very little back. The gunner turret made life very easy to aim and deal consistent damage and the driver turret allowed you to do high amounts of DPS as you charge in. If momentum was added then you could continue to DPS as you charged through enemy lines shooting backwards.

All I see in this thread is a bunch of unwarranted QQ. The Magrider will be a feared tank as it always was, you just can't play it like it's a Vanguard or Prowler.

I think you're forgetting the fact that all MBT's are designed to be used as solo vehicles. All else being equal, if a Mag can't rotate, strafe, and go in reverse such that it can fire and maneuver on equal terms to the other MBT's, it will be at a severe disadvantage as a solo tank anytime it has to engage opponents that aren't directly in front of it. Without my stipulated characteristics, it would be unable to do many basic tank maneuvers like high-speed side strafing attacks, jogging back and forth while firing at right angles to your movement vector, circling the enemy, firing behind him while retreating, etc.

If the main cannon wasn't given to the driver by default and instead had a dedicated gunner I'd probably be okay with it keeping its sluggish strafe/rotate/reverse speeds from PS1. As it stands tho it needs to have the abilities I mentioned or it simply won't be agile enough to hold its own in anything but a front-to-front shootout. And that completely flies in the face of the VS's maneuverability philosophy.

Virulence · 2012-04-30, 08:14 PM

I don't like the "driver gets the main weapon" aspect of ANY of the tanks, least of all the Magrider, and that's the biggest issue.

I think one of the biggest downsides to the Magrider's fixed weapon is having a limited field of view; it's not like you'll be able to spin your turret around and keep an eye out for things, you'll need a gunner to do that for you, which is how it should be anyway.

The primary tank configuration should be like it was in PS1 - driver drives, gunner guns with a paired primary/secondary weapon. 360 degree turret rotation, decent turret elevation. Versatile, tough, powerful, and the backbone of an Empire's ground forces - as they should be.

I don't entirely dislike the idea of a tank with a fixed-weapon mount, however, and I think it could work well as another option.

If you, say, wanted to be a badass and blow dudes up in a heavy vehicle operated by just you, you could use a loadout similar to WW2 tank destroyers - fixed turret with a limited cone of fire, heavy forward armor, much lighter side/rear armor, and no supplemental gunner. This leaves them highly vulnerable to air cavalry and being flanked at close range, and the operator would have a limited personal field of view. The downside with this is that the Mag-TD would probably be way better simply by virtue of being able to strafe, but that could be compensated for somehow, I think. I don't think the cannons on these would necessarily have to be more powerful (insofar as "does x% more damage"), than MBT weapons, either for them to be very useful - perhaps they could inherently have less shell drop or damage degradation over longer distances. You could have offensive customization options to do this, maybe give your shells better armor penetration, or other things.

It would add another armor-oriented playstyle that I think may be very appealing to some people, and it would help drive home the feeling of combined arms, large-scale warfare that really emphasizes using a variety of tactics in concert and supporting the other dudes in your army.