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View Poll Results: What do you identify yourself as?
Atheist/Skeptic/Agnostic 151 70.89%
Catholic 21 9.86%
Protestant 24 11.27%
Jewish 5 2.35%
Muslim 2 0.94%
Philisophy (Such as Buddhism) 10 4.69%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 2012-03-29, 11:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #451
Kriegson
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Re: Religion


Just my 2 cents:
A few problems with attempting to literally interpret some of the sayings or stories in holy scriptures would be that they are:
  • Written by people in an entirely different era, ergo words may carry different meanings.
  • Stories are often not to be taken literally, but are supposed to impose a moral (The boy who cried wolf for instance)
  • Written to people who often had no inclination to follow any kind of direction (interesting story here*) regardless of how logical it may be.
  • For "modernised" versions, they may have gone through numerous iterations, each written with a different agenda.

Most religions (Aside from pantheons, which are often made simply to explain the inexplicable and to entertain) often have good values and morals. From Christianity and hell to Buddhism and Karma, most generally lay down some basic laws for civilization and give some incentive to follow them.

The problems arise when it comes to interpretation. As you might imagine, supposed "Christians" howling bloody murder and waving picket signs at people aren't exactly showing compassion, understanding or forgiveness (Essentially what it is based on, what with the sacrifice of jesus and all) and are likely following an interpretation that their local preacher decided to instill.
I knew an interpreter in Iraq who confided in me his frustration with people who killed in the name of Allah, considering nowhere in the Koran (Qua'ran?) does it justify killing anyone (It's pretty close to the old testimate actually).
But then, many recruits are illiterate and have only their Imam (holy man, local priest basically) to receive their religious education from. And his agenda to endure.

So maybe not so much 2 cents as a few thousand, but despite formerly being a christian myself, I believe all religions are valid and often have positive influences or potential, if not for human nature.



(*In some country that I can't quite recall after Spain had brought the potato to Europe, the king of said fiefdom ordered that his farmers start to grow potatoes [Considering they were at war, and marching armies would burn or trample wheat or other crops, but potatos could remain growing and unharmed].
The stigma at the time however was that the plant was mostly for animal feed, so most people ignored his suggestion, despite the logic of it.
He even went so far as to dispatch cooks with recepies for potatoes to various farms as a further incentive, but again, no one listened.

So then he ordered that anyone not growing potatoes would have their ears cut off. Potatoes became pretty wildly popular after that.

The idea here being that people can be wildly ignorant and stupid to the point of having some knowledge crammed down their throats by force being a good thing some times.)

Last edited by Kriegson; 2012-03-29 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 2012-03-29, 11:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #452
Warborn
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Re: Religion


People have been writing the same general laws for themselves and their societies since societies were a thing. "Don't murder people." "Do unto others..." This doesn't say anything about all religions being good and valid, it says that people are inherently good and have an intrinsic morality that necessarily influences the religions they invent for themselves. Religion is nothing more than humanity's first attempt at philosophy. An attempt to explain concepts and ideas and principles they didn't have Aristotle, or Hume, or Spinoza to reflect upon. But, we have since outgrown it. We don't need religion to tell us how to live our lives. And saying they're equally valid? Not even a religious person would agree with you there.
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Old 2012-03-29, 11:58 PM   [Ignore Me] #453
Sirisian
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Kriegson View Post
I knew an interpreter in Iraq who confided in me his frustration with people who killed in the name of Allah, considering nowhere in the Koran (Qua'ran?) does it justify killing anyone (It's pretty close to the old testimate actually).
Go pick up a Quran and a Bible and grab a highlighter. (Or just google for Quran/Bible violence quotes).
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Old 2012-03-30, 06:08 AM   [Ignore Me] #454
ItsTheSheppy
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Kriegson View Post
snip
First of all, the Hadith is as respected and holy as the Qu'ran and I think if you read both, you'll be spoiled for choice to find passages encouraging you to exterminate non-muslims.

Anyway.

You mention that there is a 'problem with interpreting the holy books literally' because blah blah blah. Irrelevant. All of the authority these religions claim is that the books are the word of god and are perfect. There are no errors. If there were so much as a single error, it calls the entire document into question.

The holy books cannot be written by men, because men err. They were dictated by god, and so every letter and punctuation mark are divine and perfect. The religion simply does not work otherwise.

So reading the books literally is only a problem for religious people, because it clearly demonstrates that the books were written by bronze-age humans, and not by any divine source, which destroys their credibility.

The fact that the holy books contain fairly obvious things that are positive (and some of those things are only kinda-positive. The original commandment against killing, for example, was specifically a commandment against killing ****; God is all about killing non-****) does not excuse them for being guidebooks to pretty shitty behavior.

Here's a fun game: pick up a bible, read it cover to cover, and pick out every single passage that deals with slavery. Rank them as either pro or anti-slavery. New and old testament. If you don't have time, I'll spoil the ending for you: The bible endorses slavery, and nowhere does it come out against it. Not even Jesus. The only prohibition against slavery I'm aware of is a prohibition against owning Jewish slaves... longer than seven years or whatever.

You'd think a book written by a kind and loving and perfect god would be at least on par with our morality re: one of the most terrible crimes ever committed from one human to the other; owning them as property. But it doesn't.
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Old 2012-03-30, 02:36 PM   [Ignore Me] #455
Infektion
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Re: Religion


Why is agnostic and atheist on the same selection, it makes no sense?

You are a Theist, or not, if you're unsure, then you're a Theist.

same goes to Gay/Straight,

there is no "BI" if you like the same sex, even if you like the opposite, you're still gay, you're just a gay that likes to diversify.
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Old 2012-03-30, 02:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #456
Sirisian
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Infektion View Post
same goes to Gay/Straight,

there is no "BI" if you like the same sex, even if you like the opposite, you're still gay, you're just a gay that likes to diversify.
That seems like a rather unfounded analysis. There are homosexual people who are attracted to both sexes and are bisexual. Some that are only attracted to the same sex. Making such a generalization like yours is fairly ignorant since you can't view these topics as black and white.
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Old 2012-03-30, 02:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #457
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Re: Religion


How is "No, I do not believe in god" and "ummmm I dunno" not work out in your head?

Any Agnostic will believe in god right when they are about to die, A true Atheist won't. So Atheist and Agnostic, should NOT be in the same selection. DISCUSS THIS PLEASE. My views on these topics ARE black and white, not black/GREY/white.
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Last edited by Infektion; 2012-03-30 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 2012-03-30, 03:05 PM   [Ignore Me] #458
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Infektion View Post
How is "No, I do not believe in god" and "ummmm I dunno" not work out in your head?

Any Agnostic will believe in god right when they are about to die, A true Atheist won't. So Atheist and Agnostic, should NOT be in the same selection. DISCUSS THIS PLEASE. My views on these topics ARE black and white, not black/GREY/white.
I was more discussing your misguided analogy. Regarding agnosticism there are people that are so apathetic toward religion having grown up to it that they don't care to even discuss it. The "I don't know" or "don't care" is where the gray level comes into play. Forcing them to pick either side usually requires them to read up on both sides of the arguments. Until then they are agnostic. It's like running up to someone and asking them about a random topic they don't have much information for. You're gonna get an "I don't know" response.

Last edited by Sirisian; 2012-03-30 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 2012-03-30, 04:39 PM   [Ignore Me] #459
ItsTheSheppy
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Re: Religion


The analogy doesn't work because bisexuality is not a transitional stage between hetero and homosexuality. It's a state all on its own, where you are attracted to both sexes.

To draw a straight line between the two, you'd have to both believe and NOT believe in a god. That is not the case. Agnosts believe in 'something', but claim that it is unknowable, or has not been defined yet. Atheism is the complete rejection of the god claim.
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Old 2012-03-30, 05:57 PM   [Ignore Me] #460
Warborn
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Re: Religion


I completely reject god claims and thing believing in god(s) is pretty silly, but I also accept that it is unknowable and am willing to have my mind changed. I also believe in things, just not supernatural things. What does this make me?
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Old 2012-03-30, 06:03 PM   [Ignore Me] #461
WildGunsTomcat
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
I completely reject god claims and thing believing in god(s) is pretty silly, but I also accept that it is unknowable and am willing to have my mind changed. I also believe in things, just not supernatural things. What does this make me?
An honest person.
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Old 2012-03-30, 06:15 PM   [Ignore Me] #462
Vancha
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
I completely reject god claims and thing believing in god(s) is pretty silly, but I also accept that it is unknowable and am willing to have my mind changed. I also believe in things, just not supernatural things. What does this make me?
Serious question, or...?
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Old 2012-03-30, 06:40 PM   [Ignore Me] #463
Effective
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post
I completely reject god claims and thing believing in god(s) is pretty silly, but I also accept that it is unknowable and am willing to have my mind changed. I also believe in things, just not supernatural things. What does this make me?
An agnostic atheist. Yes it's an actual term. I'm one as well.
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Old 2012-03-30, 07:14 PM   [Ignore Me] #464
Crator
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy View Post
Here's a fun game: pick up a bible, read it cover to cover, and pick out every single passage that deals with slavery. Rank them as either pro or anti-slavery. New and old testament. If you don't have time, I'll spoil the ending for you: The bible endorses slavery, and nowhere does it come out against it. Not even Jesus. The only prohibition against slavery I'm aware of is a prohibition against owning Jewish slaves... longer than seven years or whatever.
Are you under the assumption that slavery was a bad thing in biblical times? Cause it wasn't really tyrannical slavery like there was in the US, as far as I know. But perhaps I'm just ignorant to all the details...

http://www.bible-researcher.com/slavery.html
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Old 2012-03-30, 09:18 PM   [Ignore Me] #465
ItsTheSheppy
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Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Crator View Post
Are you under the assumption that slavery was a bad thing in biblical times? Cause it wasn't really tyrannical slavery like there was in the US, as far as I know. But perhaps I'm just ignorant to all the details...

http://www.bible-researcher.com/slavery.html
It's true. We never hear enough about the good slavery.

Get outta here, man
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