Religion - Page 33 - PlanetSide Universe
PSU Social Facebook Twitter Twitter YouTube Steam TwitchTV
PlanetSide Universe
PSU: Righteous
Home Forum Chat Wiki Social AGN PS2 Stats
Notices
Go Back   PlanetSide Universe > General Forums > Political Debate Forum

View Poll Results: What do you identify yourself as?
Atheist/Skeptic/Agnostic 151 70.89%
Catholic 21 9.86%
Protestant 24 11.27%
Jewish 5 2.35%
Muslim 2 0.94%
Philisophy (Such as Buddhism) 10 4.69%
Voters: 213. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 2012-03-31, 08:00 PM   [Ignore Me] #481
Baneblade
Contributor
Lieutenant General
 
Baneblade's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Crator View Post
Are you under the assumption that slavery was a bad thing in biblical times? Cause it wasn't really tyrannical slavery like there was in the US, as far as I know. But perhaps I'm just ignorant to all the details...

http://www.bible-researcher.com/slavery.html
Yeah, cause Spartacus is just a myth that never happened.
__________________
Post at me bro.

Baneblade is offline  
Old 2012-03-31, 09:43 PM   [Ignore Me] #482
AstroFool
Private
 
Re: Religion


Pretty good posts in here, but Itsthesheppy has made the best in my opinion.

Whether there is a God or not is an endless debate. It cannot be proven or unproven. The problem is that once you've defined a God as a being outside of time and space, you can attribute all these other values to it based on some book that claims to represent its will. That's where it goes wrong.

I wouldn't have any issues with a being like that existing. What I have a problem with is when people pretend to understand what this being would want us to do, as if they're somehow more capable of understanding despite the fact that they tend to deny all rational evidence of the contrary.

So in the end I think it wouldn't even matter if God existed or not. How to live our lives, morality, is undoubtedly something God would want us to figure out for ourselves.
AstroFool is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 05:49 AM   [Ignore Me] #483
Figment
Lieutenant General
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Sobekeus View Post
Yeah, cause Spartacus is just a myth that never happened.
Indeed, only 6000 crucifictions along the Via Appia... Does not sound tyrranical to me. Nor does enslaving any conquered race, or having slave gladiator battles. Nor selling slaves as cattle. Nor using slaves as concubines, or hard, cheap labour or galley crews.

No reason I can think of why a religion that preaches some sort of equality could spread fast among the lower classes either... Because you know, Roman upper class existed out of sweet, old elderly ladies.
Figment is offline  
Old 2012-04-01, 07:18 AM   [Ignore Me] #484
Vash02
Major
 
Vash02's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Crator View Post
Are you under the assumption that slavery was a bad thing in biblical times? Cause it wasn't really tyrannical slavery like there was in the US, as far as I know. But perhaps I'm just ignorant to all the details...

http://www.bible-researcher.com/slavery.html
I love how that article completely ignores this verse

Exodus 21
20And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
I.E. its not cool to beat your slave to death but if he manages to get up again after two days, no punishment for you.
Vash02 is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 01:45 AM   [Ignore Me] #485
TheBladeRoden
Contributor
First Sergeant
 
TheBladeRoden's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Exodus 21
20And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. 21Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
Ouch, they sure could have benefited from Grammar Pharaohs back in the day.
TheBladeRoden is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 03:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #486
Effective
First Lieutenant
 
Effective's Avatar
 
Misc Info
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by TheBladeRoden View Post
Ouch, they sure could have benefited from Grammar Pharaohs back in the day.
To be fair, it's translated from an ancient language
__________________


My Stream - http://www.twitch.tv/effectivex
Effective is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 09:39 AM   [Ignore Me] #487
ItsTheSheppy
Second Lieutenant
 
ItsTheSheppy's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Effective View Post
To be fair, it's translated from an ancient language
Which itself was translated, and re-translated, and copied, and transcribed, and translated again, over and over. Take any sentence and run it through google translate enough times, and hilarity is the inevitable product.

Anyway, if you ever need a perfect example of Poe's Law, all you need to do is read these posts of people defending bible-sponsored slavery as being 'not that bad'.

Not sure if christian, or trolling.
ItsTheSheppy is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 09:51 AM   [Ignore Me] #488
WildGunsTomcat
Master Sergeant
 
WildGunsTomcat's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy View Post
Which itself was translated, and re-translated, and copied, and transcribed, and translated again, over and over. Take any sentence and run it through google translate enough times, and hilarity is the inevitable product.

Anyway, if you ever need a perfect example of Poe's Law, all you need to do is read these posts of people defending bible-sponsored slavery as being 'not that bad'.

Not sure if christian, or trolling.
Well...because it wasn't really.

You assume that slavery was always something that was undesirable and "bad" in culture.

Take the Romans for instance: Slavery was seen as desirable...especially if you were hooked up with a family like the Julii because that meant that once you were given your freedom you would be looked upon as part of the Julii family...a very wealthy family in Roman history. Slavery was seen as a way to earn your way through Roman society without having been born into the aristocracy.

Also, as a sidenote: The image of the Southern slave owner being an evil mean brute is inaccurate. Most slave owners taught their slaves how to read, housed them, fed them VERY well.

Now besides the obvious fact that slavery is fundamentally wrong...I'm not arguing that point because everyone deserves the freedom to choose their own path in life....what else are you arguing here?

In a related story....I was born and raised in Tennessee. My wife is from Watertown, New York...almost near Canada.

We were talking one night...and she told me that...in the North....they teach that the civil war was started over slavery and that Abraham Lincoln wanted the "slaves to be free."

I laughed so hard I thought I was going to pass the fuck out.

The war was fought over Southern independence, not over slavery. Lincoln said repeatedly the war was not being fought over slavery. In August 1862, over a year after the war started, Lincoln wrote an open letter to a prominent Republican abolitionist, Horace Greeley, in which he said he did not agree with those who would only “save” the Union if they could destroy slavery at the same time. Lincoln added that if he could “save” the Union without freeing a single slave, he would do so (Letter to Horace Greeley, August 22, 1862, published in the New York Tribune).

Lincoln added that if he could “save” the Union without freeing a single slave, he would do so.

The Civil War was fought over the cotton trade. Namely: The South was getting rich off of their cotton sales to other countries....the North had a failing industrial complex....they wanted more taxes from the South....the South said get fucked....and the war began.

Don't get the shit twisted anymore....Lincoln gave two shits about slaves.
WildGunsTomcat is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 09:57 AM   [Ignore Me] #489
WildGunsTomcat
Master Sergeant
 
WildGunsTomcat's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Also...as a sidenote:

A Confederate soldier who was captured early in the war expressed the South’s reason for fighting in simple yet eloquent terms. He wore a ragged homemade uniform, and like most other Southerners he didn’t own any slaves. When his Union captors asked him why he was fighting for the Confederacy, he replied, “I’m fighting because you’re down here” (McPherson, The Battle Cry of Freedom, p. 311, emphasis added).

Sorry...I love the Civil War historically and had to share that.
WildGunsTomcat is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 10:01 AM   [Ignore Me] #490
ItsTheSheppy
Second Lieutenant
 
ItsTheSheppy's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Poe's Law, dude. You're it's poster child.

You're either trolling, and trolling deep, or you mean every word of what you're saying. I have honestly no idea which it is. I am not joking, nor am I exaggerating to make a point. I literally have no clue which it is. Well done, there.

I suppose it doesn't matter. If you're trolling there's no point in feeding you. If you're not, you are so far removed from what I would consider an even passably moral person that I can't really see any profit in talking to you.

So that's that.
ItsTheSheppy is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 10:41 AM   [Ignore Me] #491
Figment
Lieutenant General
 
Re: Religion


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confede...merica#History

Check causes of secession, though there are multiple, slavery was the main thing.

The CSA's leaders have always hammered down the idea of non-equality. The only cotton tax related articles I could find on an initial search, indicated it was the CSA itself who raised cotton taxes in 1861 to get more money for the war effort.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/kingcotton.htm
Figment is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 11:28 AM   [Ignore Me] #492
Firefly
Contributor
Major General
 
Firefly's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by WildGunsTomcat View Post
Also, as a sidenote: The image of the Southern slave owner being an evil mean brute is inaccurate. Most slave owners taught their slaves how to read, housed them, fed them VERY well.
No they didn't. Slaves may have been fed well and by virtue of basic common sense they had housing, but they weren't taught to read. They were not allowed to read for a very simple reason: fear of rebellion. It was illegal to do so in many states. This is a widely-acknowledged, well-documented fact. Slaves that learned to read were in the minority and it certainly wasn't from slave owners or an appointed tutor. Ten seconds of fact-checking on Google could have done you well.

You're either misinformed, delusional, or young enough to have been taught the revised gloss-over that history courses have been teaching for the last 10-15 years. I'm in my mid-30s and my high school course in the early 90s didn't really cover how bad it was, because A) it was the South and B) we had from September to May to cover all of US history. My family was a slave-owning family. It wasn't until after I was well out of college, when I assisted my aunt on a documentary of slavery up to the mid-18th century, that I started learning just how horrifyingly and profoundly cruel it was. Whilst most of the slave owners were not terribly cruel, most of them were not the benevolent types that you would like to portray.
__________________
Firefly is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 01:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #493
WildGunsTomcat
Master Sergeant
 
WildGunsTomcat's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by ItsTheSheppy View Post
Poe's Law, dude. You're it's poster child.

You're either trolling, and trolling deep, or you mean every word of what you're saying. I have honestly no idea which it is. I am not joking, nor am I exaggerating to make a point. I literally have no clue which it is. Well done, there.

I suppose it doesn't matter. If you're trolling there's no point in feeding you. If you're not, you are so far removed from what I would consider an even passably moral person that I can't really see any profit in talking to you.

So that's that.
Of course not. And why would you? I don't agree with you on what you said at all, so I MUST be trolling and therefore you don't have time for me.

Sidenote: I know you're from New Hampshire...which is why I'm not suprised. Most people in the New England corridor have this "I'm smarter than everyone else" attitude.

*Shrug* Oh well.
WildGunsTomcat is offline  
Old 2012-04-02, 02:28 PM   [Ignore Me] #494
Warborn
Contributor
Major General
 
Warborn's Avatar
 
Re: Religion


Originally Posted by WildGunsTomcat View Post
The Civil War was fought over the cotton trade. Namely: The South was getting rich off of their cotton sales to other countries....the North had a failing industrial complex....they wanted more taxes from the South....the South said get fucked....and the war began.
Grossly oversimplified and not really true. There had been tension surrounding the free/slave state divide that existed in terms of state-level interests for a long time. During the mid-19th-century, as the USA grew westward, more states were being added, and things came to a head with the Kansas-Nebraska Act. Those states were admitted and were allowed to determine their own future as either a slave or a free state based on public referendum. As a result, people from other states flooded into those areas to attempt to swing the vote one way or the other. Congressman Charles Sumner condemned the Kansas-Nebraska Act for its allowance of the potential for even more slavery in the US, and was attacked in the House, struck in the head with a cane by Congressman Preston Brooks for his harsh words. Brooks was applauded by Southerns, and decried by Northerners. Meanwhile, boarder violence between pro-slavery and pro-freedom fighters erupted along the Kansas boarder, as both sides attempted to curtail the efforts of the other to influence the state.

This sharply divided the nation as a whole and political elements within the House. The result was the creation of a new party -- the Republican Party -- which was comprised of pro-freedom elements from various other parties (Whigs, Democrats, Know-Nothings, etc). The result for Kansas and Nebraska was that they would be free states, and as a result the South was basically pushed beyond the tipping point. They felt that their interests in the representative democracy, where a vast gulf divides slave and free state interests, would now be forever pointed against them as the number of free states grew.

During the actual war, though, it's certainly true that slavery was not what the North was fighting for. In fact, during Lincoln's re-election in 1864, his Democrat opponents attempted to use that idea against Lincoln, arguing that his real motives were to free the slaves and make them equal to white people, which was a very unpopular idea at the time. Slavery wasn't really the issue, but at the same time, it was the whole issue. It was, as Confederate-apologists will tell you, about State Rights... only in this case, it was the right to own slaves.

It is interesting that some might have the mistaken notion that the cause of the Civil War was taxes, though. These days, I imagine that bit of fiction rings very true for a lot of the "Tea Party" types. That taxes brought the nation to war with itself before and, by jingo, if that Kenyan Mooslim Obongo raises my taxes to kill my grandma with death panels once more it'll be Civil War Part Two!

Last edited by Warborn; 2012-04-02 at 02:33 PM.
Warborn is offline  
Old 2012-04-06, 12:16 AM   [Ignore Me] #495
AnamNantom
Master Sergeant
 
AnamNantom's Avatar
 
Exclamation Re: Religion


Originally Posted by Warborn View Post

It is interesting that some might have the mistaken notion that the cause of the Civil War was taxes, though. These days, I imagine that bit of fiction rings very true for a lot of the "Tea Party" types. That taxes brought the nation to war with itself before and, by jingo, if that Kenyan Mooslim Obongo raises my taxes to kill my grandma with death panels once more it'll be Civil War Part Two!
Mandating healthcare will backfire. It's very unconstitutional. Much of what the FedGov has done in the past 50 years has been. Many states are nullifying this healthcare "law". Many Americans are waking up and smelling old tea. Current Tea Party? A bit partisan, at least on the face. The true spirit of the "tea party" types is to rebel against any and all political forces that would undermine the US Constitution.

At any rate, it was state's right, not taxes, for the Civil War, I agree. State's rights are what those that would like a more centralized government fight against.. and when you do that, you are fighting US citizens.

Some reading:
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/

Last edited by AnamNantom; 2012-04-06 at 12:19 AM.
AnamNantom is offline  
 
  PlanetSide Universe > General Forums > Political Debate Forum

Bookmarks

Discord


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41 AM.

Content © 2002-2013, PlanetSide-Universe.com, All rights reserved.
PlanetSide and the SOE logo are registered trademarks of Sony Online Entertainment Inc. © 2004 Sony Online Entertainment Inc. All rights reserved.
All other trademarks or tradenames are properties of their respective owners.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.