My Sniper/AWP Thread =D

[Warborn]

The armor is mostlikly some kind of composite ceramics, and btw, as i said along time ago, they have sniper rifles now that shot though a tank, yes a tank, as in sevral inchs of steel, and kill the people inside.

That's interesting. Mind providing a link?

[SandTrout]

First off, CS is shity as far as realism is concered. The AWP is 50 lbs. and thus would be hard as hell to hit anywhere on someone's body from any position other than prone or bi-poded. Also, accuracy is not affected by geting shot. the only way to affect your accuracy is to run or shoot succesively. The other weapons is counter-stike do unrealisticly low damage. You hit someone with 3 rounds from an assalut rifle or one shot from a 12-gauge to the chest, they are going down, body armor or not. A 12-gauge shot has enough power to knock them out, even if it doesnt penitrate their armor. Any assault rifle will go right though heavy body armor, and so will a 5.7mm pistol round(Five-seveN and P-90). If you are wounded, you will not be able to aim a 50-lbs. rifle while standing at anything. 5 .45 shots will knock anyone on their ass, and the same with 9mm rounds. While relitively low powered, they still can apply enough energy through a vest to shock your nervouse system into knock-out mode. Why do you think most guns have a 3-round-burst mode? If you're looking for realism, try DoD.

Second, when you're dealing with areas as wide open and free to move in as we are in planetside, a sniper must wait for its prey, take 1 shot to take it down, and move before it is found and killed. However, it would take more time to locate the sniper, so the sniper cannot be allowed easy 1-shots on anything above standard armor(Headshots are not easy 1-shots). However, Reinforced(I'm assumeing this is what "Heavy" armor is) shouldn't be able to consider a sniper as an annoyance. As it stand, Reinforced can survive 2 BD shots to the body, and probably 1 to the head.

[SandTrout]

A 50-calibre BMG can penetrate some tank's armor, dont have a link, but that rifle is made for takeing out armored equipment.

Also, I have a friend in the air-force and he observed .50 machine guns tearing appart dummy-tanks.

[Warborn]

Maybe I'm just skeptical, but I have difficulty believing that a portable machine gun that fires solid slugs can blow through a tank -- a vehicle that has armor designed to be able to withstand or at least deflect 100mm+ shells. I won't be totally surprised if I'm wrong, but I'd really like a link to prove it, as my knowledge of modern day weaponry isn't anywhere as comprehensive as my knowledge of weaponry from 60 years ago is.

Also, I have a friend in the air-force and he observed .50 machine guns tearing appart dummy-tanks.

Keyboard in that sentence being dummy.

[Lexington_Steele]

Remember maching guns, not sub machine guns.

Think the type that is mounted on on a vehicle, with a big old stand, a long barrel and rounds being fed through.

[SandTrout]

Dummy tanks are basicly tank armor without an engien or gun. Modern tanks have signifiganly less armor than old ww2 tanks because mobility is considered more important.

The BMG(Browning Machine Gun) sniper rifle is a .50 rifle that was made from the design of the .50 machine gun that has been used sense ww2. The BMG sniper rifle is made for taking out light armored vehicles, not soft targes(aka: Infantry). There is a chance the bullet may be deflected by tank armor, but if it is hit at the right angle, it will go right though. The BMG uses a special mussle break that reduces recoil signifigantly which allows it to be used by an infantryman.

Modern sniper rifles that are made for takeing out people are mostly .30cal/7.62mm. These weapons include the PSG1, M14, and many bolt action rifles. M60 medium machine guns can also be used as sniper rifles very effectively, even though it isnt their specialty.

For gameplay reasons, they wont allow a sniper to take out even a lighting on his own.

[SandTrout]

Oh yeah, and btw, tank armor is made to protect against small arms fire and some explosives, not 100+mm rounds. 100+mm rounds use High Explosive Anti-Tank rounds(AKA:HEAT) that focus explosive force forewards and melts the tanks armor to penetrate.

If anything gets hit by a tankbuster shell, it wont be along for long.

[quiet]

No respectable tank would be hurt by a machine gun or sniper rifle. An M1 would probably survive a solid hit by a lot of true AT weapons.

[Incompetent]

They had an M1 that got stuck in the gulf war, they couldn't leave it behind or else it might be captured in working order. It took FIVE tanks to knock it out of commision, and your telling me some joker with a sniper rifle should be able to knock out a Prowler. Now if were talking the kind of crap that the chinese or russians turn out these days, thats another story, but you wouldn't catch a Terran Republic tanker dead in a T-60.

[Zatrais]

Actually tanks can be destroyed by a sniper round thats placed in the joint of the turret and body of the tank.... thats where the armor is the lightest and where the ammo is stored. course you'd need one of those new laser guided rounds thats designed for that.

[rockarfett]

The energy of the round is not much of an issue when you want to kill a human. Any sort of rifle round is quite enough. Standard 7.62x51 nato ammo would penetrate most modern body armor. The problems a sniper has to face, if it is reality you want, is not the hitting power of his weapon. It is to actually hit the target. Most games have quite unrealistic physics that makes it a lot easier to hit a target. There is no wind, bullets are not affected by gravity, the ammo is always perfect, etc, etc. To make up for this, most games reduce damage, introduce a COF and similar things in order to make up for the lack of physics. In this sence, CS is very, very unrealistic. What you ask for is realism where it gains snipers and keep the unrealistic parts that also gains snipers. I know, sniping can be fun and I like it myself sometimes, but there are not many things that hurt gameplay more than being killed by something you never saw, and that is what will happen if sniping becomes too popular. In most fps games, the sniper proportion is mostly hugely exaggerated. I am not sure about the sniper ratio in the military, but it is probably a lot less than 1/20.

[quiet]

I like how Rockarfett put it.

[Tobias]

Bah, I will get links later, but just look up Anti-material sniper weapons and get all sorts of rifles (most look like small cannons hehe) that can shoot the shit out of tanks, or find the old thread where i had the link for the anti tank sniping rifle. And fyi incedary(sp? like most of my big words) rounds will kill most everyone inside. Also some fire then flettchets that get in and frag, but not as deadly.


as for composite armor, just look to kevlar for what we have now or search for composite armor....

[Warborn]

Guys, come on. The Abrams tank that the US army uses has depleted uranium encased in steel as its main body armor, and it is designed to withstand or deflect HEAT rounds, and even 150mm rounds that the tank itself fires. These vehicles cost millions, and millions, and millions of dollars to produce. Do you honestly believe that such an expensive weapon would exist if a several thousand dollar machine gun firing relatively inexpensive rounds could blast through these multi-million dollar machines? What exactly would be the point of having tanks if some redneck on a jeep could waste one with a .50 cal machine gun? I don't want to hit the nail on the head, but you guys have no idea what you're talking about. Unless it's some ultra-flukey shot, a machine gun is hardly going to dent the armor of a tank.

If anything gets hit by a tankbuster shell, it wont be along for long.

You obviously have no idea how tanks function in battle.

There is a chance the bullet may be deflected by tank armor, but if it is hit at the right angle, it will go right though.

Utter bullshit.

Think the type that is mounted on on a vehicle, with a big old stand, a long barrel and rounds being fed through.

Yeah, the military puts them on Hummers. They pack a punch, but they're a pea-shooter against a main battle tank.

Dummy tanks are basicly tank armor without an engien or gun. Modern tanks have signifiganly less armor than old ww2 tanks because mobility is considered more important.

The M1 Abrams tank has steel armor with uranium inserts which equal to approximately 500mm of high-grade steel armor. Their plating is a bit lighter than pure steel, but the main reason these tanks are so much faster is because their engines are a hell of a lot better than what they were back then. The PzKpfw VI "Tiger II", by comparison, had 150mm of high grade steel on its most reinforced area (the gun mantlet -- that's the front of the turret). Again -- the armor was a bit lighter, but the main reason these tanks are faster is because of their engine. Christ, just look at the gun. 150mm shells that thing fires. Almost double that of the PzKpwf VI.

Oh, and, no, dummy tanks aren't tanks without the engine and gun. Where's the logic in getting this extremely expensive armor that the Abrams uses, just for the sake of blowing it apart?


*EDIT*

Sorry, to point out, the thickness equivalent of the Abrams' Chobham armor is classified. The number I gave was from a site that was speculating. But, the thickness is significantly more than that of anything you'd see in WW2. It's been 60 years since those tanks were being built, and if you don't think we've advanced significantly with armor and propulsion technology, you're dreaming.

[orogogus]

Guys, it's easy to look sh*t up... don't talk out of your a$$es.

Warborn is right (mostly) about the M1... no piss-ant 0.50 cal machine gun is going to do diddly-squat to it... ever. The best thing it could hope for would be to hit some of the imaging (FLIR) systems and sorta blind the tank.

Here is a quick link- it's the first one Yahoo! pulled up after typing in 'M1 Abrams'... it's pretty informative for those that care, with links to other sites. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m1.htm

For the record, the M1A2 has a 120mm smoothbore cannon (specifically both the M1A1 and the M1A2 which replaced the older 105mm smoothbores on the original M1) and has both Chobam armor and additional steel armor with depeleted uranium inserts. They can fire both HEAT rounds and saboted depleted uranium 'tank-busting' rounds.

Read the site, information is good.

PS, a 0.50 cal couldn't even do squat to a WWII-era MBT.