The Air game is 20 times better post GU11 - Page 5

Whiteagle · 2013-06-21, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Verok

...But I don't play Vanu...

SolLeks · 2013-06-21, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

No... The Skyguard is SHIT, it has a Cone of Fire so wide you are better off getting out of the Lightning and shooting them with your Rifle.

The VIPER is now a better choice of Anti-Air turret, because you CANNOT sufficiently harm a single ESF enough to cause him to flee and you may also have to deal with Enemy Armor!

In fact the only thing making the game playable is the fact that Air HAS NOT CAUGHT ON to the fact that they no longer have a Ground Counter.

Uh, not really...

Like I just said, you are probably better off using a CARBINE instead because at least you can reliably hit with it.

Well, since you seem to think using the carbine is better, I am going to have to say LOLNO. Skyguards pre GU11 would kill aircraft in 1 on 1 fights even with the large lead and CoF assuming a skilled skyguard driver vs a skilled pilot. I have killed many a ESF with mine, although bursters were better.

Also, I do feel SNAFU's account is more accurate as he usually does not make up shit and is in favor of these changes.

Sounds like AA is in a good place now.

snafus · 2013-06-21, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

...But I don't play Vanu...

Do you play at all?

Whiteagle · 2013-06-21, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by snafus

Do you play at all?

When I'm feeling especially masochistic, yeah...

Chanfan · 2013-06-21, 04:17 PM

As a frequent TR AA MAX user, I will say my initial take is the MAX burster nerfs are not bad. I was playing the last few weeks, enjoying the heck out of my level 5 lockdown, as I knew it was quite deliciously OP and was in line for the nerf bat.

So far, in my (very limited) testing, I'd say the one of the only things I don't care much for is the long range MAX fire is perhaps degraded a little too much - but it's hard to be sure yet. It may just take practice of firing in short bursts, which I was attempting. The MAX cost seems perhaps a little too severe. I like the idea of making them cost more, so you have to think about it - but it also makes the utility of pulling AA MAXs much less (as they are often pulled - at least in my experience - for a fairly short duration). That would likely be fixed if you got a refund for swapping out rather than dying.

SolLeks · 2013-06-21, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Chanfan

As a frequent TR AA MAX user, I will say my initial take is the MAX burster nerfs are not bad. I was playing the last few weeks, enjoying the heck out of my level 5 lockdown, as I knew it was quite deliciously OP and was in line for the nerf bat.

So far, in my (very limited) testing, I'd say the one of the only things I don't care much for is the long range MAX fire is perhaps degraded a little too much - but it's hard to be sure yet. It may just take practice of firing in short bursts, which I was attempting. The MAX cost seems perhaps a little too severe. I like the idea of making them cost more, so you have to think about it - but it also makes the utility of pulling AA MAXs much less (as they are often pulled - at least in my experience - for a fairly short duration). That would likely be fixed if you got a refund for swapping out rather than dying.

I think the increase cost in stuff is to promote less switching and more teamwork. Now that people can not switch out of maxes because they cost nothing, they need sundies / gals / harassers to transport them. That way you have to plan ahead instead of just pulling in response to things. you can alwasy swap over to AI / AV weapons when there is no air around.

Whiteagle · 2013-06-21, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by SolLeks

I think the increase cost in stuff is to promote less switching and more teamwork. Now that people can not switch out of maxes because they cost nothing, they need sundies / gals / harassers to transport them. That way you have to plan ahead instead of just pulling in response to things. you can alwasy swap over to AI / AV weapons when there is no air around.

Yes, which is a good thing I will admit...

...But the Skyguard still sucks ass and needs more lethality, least we return to Liberators being the only Vehicle that matters...

SolLeks · 2013-06-21, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Yes, which is a good thing I will admit...

...But the Skyguard still sucks ass and needs more lethality, least we return to Liberators being the only Vehicle that matters...

Sounds like they are fine to me... Maybe try leading your target =P

I still have to see for myself though, I don't normally play on the weekends but I may pop in for a bit to skyguard it up.

Whiteagle · 2013-06-21, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by SolLeks

Sounds like they are fine to me... Maybe try leading your target =P

I do lead enough to hit them, but it's nigh impossible to keep up considering it's a three-length lead on the most MOBILE Vehicle in the game.

Good news is we apparently have enough ammunition in the Magazine to kill and ESF now...

SolLeks · 2013-06-21, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

I do lead enough to hit them, but it's nigh impossible to keep up considering it's a three-length lead on the most MOBILE Vehicle in the game.

Good news is we apparently have enough ammunition in the Magazine to kill and ESF now...

the =P was there because it was more of a joke... Like I said, I have not used it yet so I don't really have a comment yet, just going off of what I have herd.

Whiteagle · 2013-06-21, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by SolLeks

the =P was there because it was more of a joke... Like I said, I have not used it yet so I don't really have a comment yet, just going off of what I have herd.

Yeah the speed buff isn't really noticeable, maybe cutting half a length from the lead, so that's why I'm SOO pissed off that this is suppose to be Ground's Primary Anti-Air platform...

CrankyTRex · 2013-06-22, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Yeah the speed buff isn't really noticeable, maybe cutting half a length from the lead, so that's why I'm SOO pissed off that this is suppose to be Ground's Primary Anti-Air platform...

I would think the base turrets would be ground's primary anti-air platform.

Forsaken One · 2013-06-22, 05:14 AM

I keep hearing the word/term skill being tossed around in this thread.

I'm sorry but expecting even a inch on the screen lead of something that can move in three dimensions is worse then trying to hit a ADADing unnerfed ZoE with a pistol. To make matters worse that can be further hitbox F****ed by the turning/spinning of the aircraft. Everyone whined about ADADing on the ground, no one understands that Air is 3 times worse to hit even if hitbox is bigger.

ChipMHazard · 2013-06-22, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Thunderhawk

Ask your ESFs to engage the Liberators.......rather than trying to farm kills on the ground.

- Problem solved

If only this was true. Didn't work out any of the times the same was suggested, back when air dominated the battlefield. People aren't going to switch from ground farming to air interception, just like that. Sadly

Now if only the ESFs weren't so versatile and focused more around air superiority, then I would agree with you.

Regarding the topic at hand, I haven't tried the game since the burster nerf. I do hope that the Skyguard has picked up the reins or it's just going to be a repeat in history.
Can't make a personal call on this yet though.

I also want to remind the people in this thread that this isn't the official forum

Please keep silly amounts of exaggeration to a minimum, let's keep things as constructive as possible.

omega four · 2013-06-22, 09:56 AM

I've been traveling this whole week on business and haven't had the pleasure of playing PS2 since the GU11 update.

However, in theory I'm in favor of the changes to the air/ground relationship. I've always been an advocate of making the Skyguard the primary AA weapon, for the simple reason that pilots can SEE the Skyguard from the air whereas it was almost impossible to see the AA MAX until it was too late.

I'm also glad to see that pilots are no longer getting picked off 3 hexes away from AA MAXs. It's one thing if a pilot is intentionally flying headfirst towards a MAX. Then the pilot deserves to get blown out of the sky. But when pilots are simply traversing from one point to another, only to suddenly get blown out of the sky by an AA MAX that they didn't even see on the ground, then it's another thing entirely....

Now, I wish they'd reduce the range of the TR Striker RPG. It's the most effective AA RPG weapon by far and gives TR an unfair advantage in clearing out the skies. The NC and VS have nothing like it in their arsenal.

Originally Posted by phungus

Wow the burster nerf has had a huge effect. HUGE. I saw today multiple incidents where Bursters set up in their normal overlook spots to troll air and cert farm: DENIED all they got was boring camping, maybe getting an "ground to air damage" bonus here and there. Surprised to see no tears shed over this loss of "tactics", and good luck for all you trolls that used to warpgate camp with a sundee a few MAXes: DENIED that shit don't work no more. The days of a single sunderer with a couple MAXes being able to deny all airspace anywhere near them are over.

The main effect for me has been that I can actually engage in battles. I have to zip in and out once they pull AA, I can't just hoverspam my rotary (but I will until some peasant does grab AA). The moment someone does grab flak it no longer means I am forbidden to be anywhere near the area. Fighting in decent sized battles now as an ESF is fun! I haven't tried large battles yet, but I was engaged in a couple decent sized fights and it looked like real combined arms!

The A2Am buff/fix along with burster changes have completely changed the air game. Right now I don't know how things work, but ESFs feel good again. On Connery there are alot, and I mean alot of A2Am users. Overall this has been a good change, but there are two problems. First A2Am and G2Ar don't differentiate to the player, and you have to flee from G2A locks and turn to fight A2A locks, picking wrong is pretty much guarunteed death. It's no fun to lose your ESF due to what comes down to a coin flip. What I want is a spare flare to go along with my AB tanks, I would be happy with that and nothing else, but we'll see what the ESF has in store.

Have any large outfits started opening up their tactics and duscussed air play again to actually augment forces? Air is certainly viable in much larger battles now where it was previously totally denied access. Seems this is a much bigger change then most people realize.

I also have not done any testing with the lib. Anyone notice any differences in lib flying, is it any easier?