The Jackhammer - Page 6

Diviant · 2003-06-17, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by Winged_Nazgul
You'd be a lot more convincing if you didn't have this as your empire of choice:

So sue me, I'm lazy. I play as NC. Note the NC Sig.

ColdbringeR · 2003-06-17, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Cyber
Sorry, as far as I'm concerned you've completely invalidated your opinion in this one line alone.

Chaingun "not bad at distance" ? LOL. At it's narrowest the COF isn't going to hit anyone much more then 50m away. And in that case it's bursting slower then the Cycler. That is no where near "not bad at distance" it ranks up there as "horrible at distance" to the same degree as the jackhammer. Except as you yourself say, the hammer is overpowered and more lethal at close range.

Maybe you need to learn not hold down the fire button when you're shooting at range? It's called bursting, and unfortunately you cannot do it with the jackhammer. At 30m away you'd be lucky to do even one sixith of the damage with the jackhammer as it does at close range. The chaingun can still be quite effective at this range though. At 50m though, i agree. They're both quite worthless.

Jarlo · 2003-06-17, 09:25 AM

Everyone agrees the hammer is the best hvy assault, and that is fine with me. But I, and many others, would MUCH prefer to see the lasher and chaingun boosted instead of a jackhammer nerf.

I'm anxiously awaiting the dev's thoughts on vanu weapons-- which was promised in the "near future".

Happy lil Elf · 2003-06-17, 10:41 AM

I wish there was a way to force everyone in this argument to make a character of both opposing factions, do VR training, get heavy assault cert for their two opposing factions and spend a night, hell 3 nights, using it before coming here and posting anything about how unbalanced anything is.

I've played with the MCG, enjoyed it, and it does need it's CoF reduced. I play with the Jackhammer, enjoy it, and it's fine. I'll let you know how the lasher feels after I play around with it some more, haven't spent enough time to form an opinion on it yet. Then again that hasn't stopped anyone here

JonnyK · 2003-06-17, 10:58 AM

I just got rid of my jackhammer cert and replaced it wiht a scatter max. but i'm pretty sure i'll get the jackhammer back when i get up to higher certs

WritheNC · 2003-06-17, 11:32 AM

I wish there was a way to force everyone in this argument to make a character of both opposing factions, do VR training, get heavy assault cert for their two opposing factions and spend a night, hell 3 nights, using it before coming here and posting anything about how unbalanced anything is.

That's a good idea. I think I'll play Vanu and use a Lasher after work.

I'd rather see the Lasher and Chaingun get beefed up as opposed to nerfing the Jackhammer. I mean, if the nerfs keep up, you'll lose the advantage of first strike. You'll be running to a base, and see an enemy who doesn't notice you yet. You take cover, fire, and start shooting him. He's running for cover and makes it because all the weapons have been nerfed.

Like I said, its still about the initiative. I'd say 75% of my kills are because I had the option to fight. In big base battles I take cover behind trees, and pick anyone off with my gauss that thinks this is UT2k3 and is running, jumping, and shooting. If you get off the first shot, you win.

There have been many, many times where I'm in a base with a JH, and someone with any gun gets off the first shot. Unless they really really suck, I'm dead. That's the way it should be.

I think the jackhammer has a psychological impact as well that gives it a definite edge. It makes TR/VS think; don't think, just shoot!!!!

Well I'll play Vanu tonight and see if I'm right lol.

Ludio · 2003-06-17, 11:39 AM

I think the main argument of those saying that the jackhammer should be nerfed, instead of improving the others is that at the moment almost all the NC carry jackhammers. It is only one cert but you find that the majority of kills are being made by it, obviously this means it is overpowered compared to the other NC certs. It doesnt matter how it compares to VS or TR heavy weapons, one cert should not be dominant. If the other heavy weapons were boosted then soon heavy weapons would be a required cert for anyone serious about indoor combat. This is where a lot of the combat takes place, but 80% of the people you face should not carry the same weapon, that shows that you can kill people so much faster with it than any other weapon that everyone is using it. It does take 4 certs and so it should be 'better' than most other weapons, but it should not be the only weapon people carry. When I see the gear of the top NC it is almost exclusively Jackhammer and Decimator, Jackhammer for grunts and Decimator for maxes. It shouldn't have such a dominant place among the weaponry, it should be a good weapon, especially for indoor combat, but other weapons should be under consideration. At the moment that isnt the case. To look at another 'good' weapon, the Lancer, you see that a lot of kills are made by it, but you never see the huge runs of nothing but Jackhammer kills, it is good and a lot of people use it, but they use other stuff too.

Ducimus · 2003-06-17, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Cyber
Look at my sig and tell me again how I'm a noob.

I think the jackhammer is in need of a nerf and I become more convinced of it everytime I log into the game. Tonight in a huge VS/TR battle on Amerish there were several times when even though there were no NC around you ran into VS or TR guys wielding jackhammers to great effect. In fact at one point a whole squad of VS dropped onto a tower I was defending, out of the 8 infantry, 6 had jackhammers. None had thier empire specific heavy assault gun. 1 was an infiltrator and one was a MAX.

Extreme case? Yes, but there were still several times for the rest of the night on Amerish were you'd suddenly run into a VS or TR wielding a jackhammer for no apparent reason. It's one thing to see them in a TR/NC fight since they're so easy to loot. But seeing them pulled out in a TR/VS fight is kinda silly.

That said tonight was one of the most enjoyable nights of PS I've had in a long time. There were very few NC on Amerish and for the most part it was just a big fight between the TR and VS without all the frustration of a thousand guys with the same weapon. Arguably this battle showed just how close the VS / TR are to balance. It went back and forth between Cetan and Irkala all night, they'd take one, we'd push one to neutral and take it. Musical bases? Ya, but it was a ton of fun.

It used to be that fighting the NC was the most fun for me since you knew they didn't think they had underpowered weapons. But at this point as far as I and it seems alot of TR are concerned the NC can rot. They've pushed in a taken large chunks of our backyard everyday the past few days. Yet, you go to the sanctuary and is anyone organizing a push to take them back? Nope, they're calling for reinforcements on Amerish.

Cause it's fun there. At this point until something changes with the jackhammer I think I'll be more actively seeking out places were I'm likely to only find myself fighting the Vanu. It's fun, and not cause it's easy (it's not) but because it involves more then one weapon being used. If the NC want our backyard they can have it, I certainly won't be lineing up to oppose them.

Funny thing is, ive noticed similar feelings from people on my own server. I remember one comment, "looks like its time for the happy happy NC zerg hour". Not that we don't do that ourselves, but i think we threw up a sort of half hearted resistance. Once NC showed up, i'd rather go elsewhere. I think others felt the same way. Eventually we did, leaving all the bases we just capped unguarded. Outdoor bridge type battles are fun, but when it comes to bases, id sooner everyone just walk away and let them have it for zilcho exp. Last night we did just that, no one really cared to fight them.

Tryndamere · 2003-06-17, 11:59 AM

Same thing has been happening on Markov. I've spent the last couple days on Amerish fighting against the VS and it is soooo much more fun then fighting the legions of Jackhammer rushing forward zerglings.

TR v VS has led to some great battles that last for hours as several bases switch back and forth, and bodies line the fields. Meanwhile NC has taken over Forseral, but no one cares because they're having too much fun.

I have actually been arguing against nerfing the Jackhammer before, but laying it out like that about how its just not fun fighting an army of shotgun toting kamikazes. NC armies I've fought generally use 90% brute force, 10% tactics.

Robot · 2003-06-17, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by Tryndamere
I have actually been arguing against nerfing the Jackhammer before, but laying it out like that about how its just not fun fighting an army of shotgun toting kamikazes. NC armies I've fought generally use 90% brute force, 10% tactics.

Just cycler spam them from a long ways away

that's how i got owned during beta, anyways. but, yeah, i think the "junkhammer" could use at least a tiny nerfing. maybe decreasing the re-fire rate/decreasing the range?

Ghost06 · 2003-06-17, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by Tryndamere
NC armies I've fought generally use 90% brute force, 10% tactics.

Considering that the specialty of the NC is brute force, shouldn't the Jackhammer be a little brutish up close? Come on, SOE is comparing the weapon to a Jackhammer; used to break cement, asphault, sidewalks, and etc. Think there's a similarity?

... erhm...

What ever happened to the TR posts? NERF THE POUNDER!! IT'S UBER SHOTTER NADERR MAX!! WHO'S WITH ME? PETITION SOE!!! Man... those were the days

MrVulcan · 2003-06-17, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Led
If they would change it to a PPC, THAT would kick ass.

BZZZT

hehehe

Now that would be sweet
Or, what if our guass had a higher end capacitor for more realistic gauss punch...

Now, if you take the Hammer (4 certs), even a squad with hammers and go vs the TR dual pounder max (3 cert) , at ANY range... um... ya, punder wins

But im not calling for a nerf, it is the pounder's job to kill inf en mass

Chain gun vs Hammer at a range, even if the hammer guy charges it with surge the chain gun will still win, same with the lasher

Now i am not saying that the chain gun and lasher dont need help, they do, decrease the chain gun cof some, and increase lasher "lash" dmg,

People, up close, there is nothing that will have the power of the jackhammer, ever, nor should it.

Even the other shotgun has more power than any other weapon upclose, you can kill reinforced in 3 shots jsut as fast as the hammer with 3 shots, and at the same range. Sure, it doesnt kill maxs as fast, or have that ultra close 3 shot thing that only does 2X the dmg of 1 shot, but why dont you try THAT shotgun for a bit , see if it is as easy to use as you think. See if you dont die all the time to things trying to get in close. Remember, it takes close to the same amount of time to kill reinforced or agile with that as it does the hammer (hammer fire time is a little faster, by 10ths of a second, but still same time range)

Winged_Nazgul · 2003-06-17, 12:17 PM

I'm not sure but I think the original plans for the NC HA weapon was going to be a flamethrower. That was scrapped due to the lag factor.

Arakiel · 2003-06-17, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Led
Nothing ever changed with the striker except fixing the lock bug...

Yeah, but it used to be overly difficult to use effectively, and now it's pretty much impossible to miss a MAX at any range.

FliggenMan · 2003-06-17, 09:38 PM

Even the other shotgun has more power than any other weapon upclose, you can kill reinforced in 3 shots jsut as fast as the hammer with 3 shots, and at the same range.

God that is wrong. So, so wrong. Not only does the Jackhammer have a RoF that exceeds the sweeper, but its Dmg per hit as well as the hit radius of its shells are increased. I've been using the JH in VR and other junk characters for 3 days to compare it, and i haven't really died to any infantry lately.