Nerf the NC MAX.

[Bravix]

I vote VS MAX gets a weapon that kills everything between 15-25 meters in half a second. NC can have their 0-10m range. TR can get 25-35.

I mean, that's fair, isn't it NC? Your argument is that its useless past 10m, which justifies it being OP against anything within that range. We'll give the other two factions the same thing, just at different ranges.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

[typhaon]

Now the stuttering is gone, I'm absolutely certain that the NC ScatMAX with slugs was nerfed in the patch.

I'm still dangerous, but nowhere near the insta-blicking (rofl poor LA) terror that I was before.

I don't know if it's the accuracy... or the damage... maybe it seems like less damage because I'm hitting less often with both slugs - but, something has changed.

And... of course... there is always the freaky bug where I'll suddenly miss 6-10 shots in a row... despite there being no conceivable way I could actually be missing.

(though I don't think I'm actually missing... I think it's just the infantry version of the AA bug - where you'll see your flak explosins as if it was 'hitting' the ESF - but the ESF is taking no damage.)

[Fortress]

NC maxes should get a shield too. It'll only work under 10m so it'll be balanced.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

Complaining about something and then closing your mind is not a good way to communicate a message.

It seems I communicated my message quite well actually, so apparently I did something right.

[Sturmhardt]

Originally Posted by Assist

It seems I communicated my message quite well actually, so apparently I did something right.

Bit really and you didn't answer to my post above. Is it because you can't bring facts to a discussion?

.sent via phone.

[psijaka]

Originally Posted by Assist

It seems I communicated my message quite well actually, so apparently I did something right.

Actually no; you have been entirely subjective; not once in this thread do you back up your claim with any hard facts, or refer to the data people have extracted from the game files.

[zauberkraft]

What do you expect ? Surviving a double tap by a MAX with double shotguns in cqc ?

Yea, wouldn't be OP if infantry could survive this .
I got scattercannons and i can't kill enemy MAX units with 1 round. Which is the weapon that instakill other MAX units? Never used anything else.

[Dkamanus]

To anyone who doesn't know, I was the guy that made those videos with my outfit. I was tad tired of people complaining about NC MAXes, since they are "OP" at close range. The video, in its depiction, shows that NC MAXes can be easily dealt at range. As a Heavy NC MAX user, I usually go with another outfit MAX (heavily certed as well) in order to mini-crash a point so we can get it.

As the video has shown, ONLY with extended magazines does the NC MAX has the advantage, since it can fire MORE shots at the 10m range. ANY NC MAX worth their salt, when confronted with another MAX unit, will simply close the range as quickly as possible, in order to deal its maximum damage at the quickest time. I don't fire at MAXes unless I'm inside the 5m range. I take the damage and run up to it (without charge if needed) then I mutilate it.

As seen in the tests, even against the VS, I almost spent my whole GRINDER (14/14 shells) to be able to kill the TR MAX at 10m. Even the Hack"OP"saw didn't kill both the TR and VS MAXes at 10m because it didn't had the extra bullets to do so, AND it was facing the Heavy Cycler/Quasar MAXes, not Mercy/Cosmos MAXes. I'd imagine the result would've been even more favourable to the TR MAX if we had dual mercy, but I was not about to dump US$ 14 in TR just to make a point (although people though that I should have done it, mostly stupid people).

Why duel standing still? THIS is how NC MAXes work. Any NC MAX pilot knows that he isn't gonna kill anything past 10m. Then why does he shot? Mostly to suppress and kill one single infantry at the expense of 28 shells. Do we complain that we can't kill stuff effectively past 10m (and by that, I mean, without spending my whole clip on both arms to kill it)?

No, we don't. I've seen this a lot of times. Even in larger rooms, like the biolabs generator room, I see people using their TR/VS MAXes the same way the NC MAX is used. I myself, when not playing MAX inside a biolab, keep my distance from a door we are camping, mostly because I won't be easily gibbed by VS/TR MAXes (though I will die much easier to them then to the NC MAX at distance anyway). VS/TR MAXes can help keep a biolab as well, but if they decide to use their MAXes as we use our, they will lose.

And before people even say stuff, sniping people with slug at 50m+ isn't worth it. It leaves you too open for attacks and will get you destroyed. And saying that slugs are worth in a 20m engagement I beg to differ. The strenght of the NC MAX is to kill while suppressing the rest of the enemy team, specially if ALL of them are coming from one single direction.

People complain that they are getting destroyed at CQC by a weapon designed to destroy in CQC. I hate automatic shotguns when I'm fighting as infantry, and still, I think they should stay the way they are. AND besides, whoever was on Beta knew what uber buffing meant for the TR (throwing Dual Cyclers at practically EVERYTHING, destroying infantry after infantry at medium range by the bunches without a significant counter for it would ALSO be destroyed at close range combat).

They'll nerf the NC MAX? Probably. But I'm not concerned, mostly because we know what happened to the shit the NC MAX was in Beta (having to unlock a SECOND scatter cannon to kill 1 infantry unit at 5m). Yes, I was at the recieveing end of the Dual Cycler MAX for too long as well, and we saw the problem it was NOT to able to EVEN get close to a cycler before it killed you. In fact, it killed where you were, so you couldn't come close anyway.

How they'll nerf it? Probably more CoF increase to make range totally useless. Maybe take 2 bullets out. I really don't care. They won't diminish the damage of the shotgun, so we'll continue to destroy at close range, which is something that I like to do. Some minor nerfs like the magrider suffered, but VS players are complaining SO much like they had turned the Magrider into a 4-wheeled baby cart. Nop, they didn't, just adapt and move on. NC has. Even with the hardest equipment to learn to use.

Eventually they stopped complaining how bad the weapons were, and so will you about the magrider.

[HiroshiChugi]

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

To anyone who doesn't know, I was the guy that made those videos with my outfit. I was tad tired of people complaining about NC MAXes, since they are "OP" at close range. The video, in its depiction, shows that NC MAXes can be easily dealt at range. As a Heavy NC MAX user, I usually go with another outfit MAX (heavily certed as well) in order to mini-crash a point so we can get it.

As the video has shown, ONLY with extended magazines does the NC MAX has the advantage, since it can fire MORE shots at the 10m range. ANY NC MAX worth their salt, when confronted with another MAX unit, will simply close the range as quickly as possible, in order to deal its maximum damage at the quickest time. I don't fire at MAXes unless I'm inside the 5m range. I take the damage and run up to it (without charge if needed) then I mutilate it.

As seen in the tests, even against the VS, I almost spent my whole GRINDER (14/14 shells) to be able to kill the TR MAX at 10m. Even the Hack"OP"saw didn't kill both the TR and VS MAXes at 10m because it didn't had the extra bullets to do so, AND it was facing the Heavy Cycler/Quasar MAXes, not Mercy/Cosmos MAXes. I'd imagine the result would've been even more favourable to the TR MAX if we had dual mercy, but I was not about to dump US$ 14 in TR just to make a point (although people though that I should have done it, mostly stupid people).

Why duel standing still? THIS is how NC MAXes work. Any NC MAX pilot knows that he isn't gonna kill anything past 10m. Then why does he shot? Mostly to suppress and kill one single infantry at the expense of 28 shells. Do we complain that we can't kill stuff effectively past 10m (and by that, I mean, without spending my whole clip on both arms to kill it)?

No, we don't. I've seen this a lot of times. Even in larger rooms, like the biolabs generator room, I see people using their TR/VS MAXes the same way the NC MAX is used. I myself, when not playing MAX inside a biolab, keep my distance from a door we are camping, mostly because I won't be easily gibbed by VS/TR MAXes (though I will die much easier to them then to the NC MAX at distance anyway). VS/TR MAXes can help keep a biolab as well, but if they decide to use their MAXes as we use our, they will lose.

And before people even say stuff, sniping people with slug at 50m+ isn't worth it. It leaves you too open for attacks and will get you destroyed. And saying that slugs are worth in a 20m engagement I beg to differ. The strenght of the NC MAX is to kill while suppressing the rest of the enemy team, specially if ALL of them are coming from one single direction.

People complain that they are getting destroyed at CQC by a weapon designed to destroy in CQC. I hate automatic shotguns when I'm fighting as infantry, and still, I think they should stay the way they are. AND besides, whoever was on Beta knew what uber buffing meant for the TR (throwing Dual Cyclers at practically EVERYTHING, destroying infantry after infantry at medium range by the bunches without a significant counter for it would ALSO be destroyed at close range combat).

They'll nerf the NC MAX? Probably. But I'm not concerned, mostly because we know what happened to the shit the NC MAX was in Beta (having to unlock a SECOND scatter cannon to kill 1 infantry unit at 5m). Yes, I was at the recieveing end of the Dual Cycler MAX for too long as well, and we saw the problem it was NOT to able to EVEN get close to a cycler before it killed you. In fact, it killed where you were, so you couldn't come close anyway.

How they'll nerf it? Probably more CoF increase to make range totally useless. Maybe take 2 bullets out. I really don't care. They won't diminish the damage of the shotgun, so we'll continue to destroy at close range, which is something that I like to do. Some minor nerfs like the magrider suffered, but VS players are complaining SO much like they had turned the Magrider into a 4-wheeled baby cart. Nop, they didn't, just adapt and move on. NC has. Even with the hardest equipment to learn to use.

Eventually they stopped complaining how bad the weapons were, and so will you about the magrider.

^hence the reason I play as NC, because of awesome-ass people like Dkamanus. This shows the persistence of the NC and that the REAL NC players don't complain about jack shit.

[psijaka]

Thanks for posting this dkamanus; refreshing to see such a dertailed post from someone who really knows what they are talking about.

[HiroshiChugi]

and from a fellow NC at that xD

[Varsam]

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

Eventually they stopped complaining how bad the weapons were, and so will you about the magrider.

That probably has more to do with NC weapons actually being quite amazing after a few certs than anything else. The only reason people complained about them was because most players are terrible and treat their weapons like hoses instead of guns, and NC are punished for this type of play more than the other two.

@OP: Asymmetrical design is great for variety, but terrible for competition. As you can see by the rabid factionalization/partisanship of the playerbase, this game can get very, very competitive. People don't like that they lose because someone else can do something that they can't.

[Dkamanus]

Originally Posted by Bravix

I vote VS MAX gets a weapon that kills everything between 15-25 meters in half a second. NC can have their 0-10m range. TR can get 25-35.

I mean, that's fair, isn't it NC? Your argument is that its useless past 10m, which justifies it being OP against anything within that range. We'll give the other two factions the same thing, just at different ranges.

Let the hypocrisy commence.

Will you be completely innefective at ALL other ranges outside of that?

Ok, then its cool by me.

[Assist]

Originally Posted by psijaka

Actually no; you have been entirely subjective; not once in this thread do you back up your claim with any hard facts, or refer to the data people have extracted from the game files.

I've been subjective? You're right, I have been. I posted things from my point of view because there are no numbers coming out from SoE about anything from this game when they make balancing changes, other than completely subjective numbers which they themselves stated. So yes, I am being subjective because that's the only thing I can be.

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Bit really and you didn't answer to my post above. Is it because you can't bring facts to a discussion?

.sent via phone.

You can read above, or perhaps my other post in here which I linked to as well. I guess you don't want to read it, which is fine, but stop responding if you're not going to read it. I bring the facts that I know from the game because it's all I have. Like I said, I can make a video of the VS MAX against an NC MAX and show it to you destroying the VS MAX, what does it prove? It proves I set a situation that favored my point of view to get the results I wanted. If you don't believe the NC MAX is too strong I suggest you spend a little more time in the game, but that WASN'T THE POINT OF THIS ENTIRE THREAD. Please read what I wrote rather than going on and on about stupid shit like nerfs that I explained I DON'T WANT THEM TO HAPPEN.

Originally Posted by Dkamanus

Nop, they didn't, just adapt and move on. NC has. Even with the hardest equipment to learn to use.

Eventually they stopped complaining how bad the weapons were, and so will you about the magrider.

NC has stopped complaining? Really Dkanamus, since when? I play against you, I've seen you numerous times in fights, and I'm fairly sure at every fight there's bitching from both sides about everything and anything. Go to the planetside2 official forums and tell me again that NC has stopped complaining about weapon balance, you can find a post on the first page whining about VS/TR being OP because of X and Y. I played maybe 2 hours yesterday and all I heard from the 3-way fight I was at is that VS/NC whining about the Cycler and how it needs to be nerfed. That's all people do in this game, cry about nerfs. I'd also like to thank you for pointing out that the Magrider is clearly sub-par right now, it's nice to know that NC has noticed this*cough*. Also, as much as everyone loves to whine about the NC weapons I personally prefer them over the the other weapons, why? Because they're better when certed out. I'm almost 100% sure that when the account-wide unlocks go in myself and Nado will be playing NC because they're just better in our opinions, especially now that the Magrider is not worth being VS. We've been playing them lately on Connery, since Waterson is too static of a fight(Tho I do miss you Swiffle <3).

I want to know why you guys are continuing to bring up a MAX vs MAX discussion when it's completely irrelevant. If you want to compare like that then please compare the Magrider vs the Prowler pre-patch, if I was in a Prowler I could beat my Magrider every single fight pre-patch. Now I definitely could, but that's besides the point. Comparing like things in this game is clearly not how they intend to balance, which is evident from the latest changes. In that case, which I've attempted to shine light on here, you take the NC MAX effective K/D compared to a VS/TR MAX effective K/D and it's not even close. Why? Because the NC MAX is much better in situations where MAX units are used most often(Bio Labs).

Once again, hopefully you'll read this rather than just ignoring it, I've stated that I do NOT want the NC MAX to be nerfed. However, I also feel the TRAC-5, CARV, Magrider, etc also did not need to be nerfed. 'Dumbing' the game down so everyone has the same effective k/d is not balance, it's mediocrity and I am trying to get the point across to you guys about that. Someone screams NERF, posts some random stat that supports it, and the community jumps on it. This is how the balance has gone so far, even in beta, and it's not how it should be done IMO as it only makes the game boring.

[Hamma]

Let's keep these threads constructive and try to keep personal attacks and bickering out of them.

This goes for everyone in the thread.