The Air game is 20 times better post GU11

[omega four]

I agree with you about gamers not switching to air interception in droves and insist on still attacking ground targets. Thanks to the increase in points given for destroying air assets, I've found that air interception is a very lucrative practice and much easier to accomplish since most other pilots are so focused on attacking ground targets.

I've turned the art of hunting Libs into a science. The only exception is when some TR Lib main gunners use an aimbot to one-shot my ESF out of the skies from long range.

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

If only this was true. Didn't work out any of the times the same was suggested, back when air dominated the battlefield. People aren't going to switch from ground farming to air interception, just like that. Sadly
Now if only the ESFs weren't so versatile and focused more around air superiority, then I would agree with you.

Regarding the topic at hand, I haven't tried the game since the burster nerf. I do hope that the Skyguard has picked up the reins or it's just going to be a repeat in history.
Can't make a personal call on this yet though.

I also want to remind the people in this thread that this isn't the official forum Please keep silly amounts of exaggeration to a minimum, let's keep things as constructive as possible.

[phungus]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

If only this was true. Didn't work out any of the times the same was suggested, back when air dominated the battlefield. People aren't going to switch from ground farming to air interception, just like that. Sadly.

The ground farming was due to a stupid point earning system that only looked at kills.

I played the first four months in this game as an A2A intercepter with A2Am cause I roll like that and just hated air (then got addicted to flying an ESF). My SPH was around 4000 unboosted, often lower. Keep in mind there is only a 50% chance you will get a kill credit when you shoot down a fighter (another stupid way to discourage A2A fighting, one I will never understand and is probably the most retarded game mechanic I have ever seen in a game). More often then not you would get less then 40XP for downing planes, and it was rare as hell to get the kill and vehicle kill together, but if you did the most you could hope for was a wopping 175XP maximum, for a lot of work.

Given the above there is no wonder no one focusedon A2A playing. In fact the point earning system this game had at release actively discouraged it. It still does by punishing A2A players by only randomly crediting them with roughly half their kills, but in terms of points it's now very lucrative killing planes (min 200xp max 800xp unboosted, that's more then 4x the point earning), which makes a huge difference in player behavior.

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by omega four

I agree with you about gamers not switching to air interception in droves and insist on still attacking ground targets. Thanks to the increase in points given for destroying air assets, I've found that air interception is a very lucrative practice and much easier to accomplish since most other pilots are so focused on attacking ground targets.

I've turned the art of hunting Libs into a science. The only exception is when some TR Lib main gunners use an aimbot to one-shot my ESF out of the skies from long range.

Originally Posted by phungus

The ground farming was due to a stupid point earning system that only looked at kills.

I played the first four months in this game as an A2A intercepter with A2Am cause I roll like that and just hated air (then got addicted to flying an ESF). My SPH was around 4000 unboosted, often lower. Keep in mind there is only a 50% chance you will get a kill credit when you shoot down a fighter (another stupid way to discourage A2A fighting, one I will never understand and is probably the most retarded game mechanic I have ever seen in a game). More often then not you would get less then 40XP for downing planes, and it was rare as hell to get the kill and vehicle kill together, but if you did the most you could hope for was a wopping 175XP maximum, for a lot of work.

Given the above there is no wonder no one focusedon A2A playing. In fact the point earning system this game had at release actively discouraged it. It still does by punishing A2A players by only randomly crediting them with roughly half their kills, but in terms of points it's now very lucrative killing planes, which makes a huge difference in player behavior.

True enough, I could certainly end up being proven wrong. It might be possible that players simply change over to taking out air targets as it becomes more lucrative, instead of trying to farm the infantry hiding inside
I guess we will see in about a week's time.

[omega four]

Hunting air assets was already lucrative prior to GU11. I averaged about 25,000 XPs an hour focusing on killing air assets.

I welcome the extra 100 XPs for killing aircraft as too many enemy pilots deny me XPs for their deaths by ejecting from their aircraft right before it gets destroyed.

Personally, I don't think pilots should be allowed to eject a damaged aircraft as it negates the purpose of the Ejection Seat certification.

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

True enough, I could certainly end up being proven wrong. It might be possible that players simply change over to taking out air targets as it becomes more lucrative, instead of trying to farm the infantry hiding inside
I guess we will see in about a week's time.

[phungus]

Originally Posted by omega four

Hunting air assets was already lucrative prior to GU11. I averaged about 25,000 XPs an hour focusing on killing air assets.

I welcome the extra 100 XPs for killing aircraft as too many enemy pilots deny me XPs for their deaths by ejecting from their aircraft right before it gets destroyed.

Personally, I don't think pilots should be allowed to eject a damaged aircraft as it negates the purpose of the Ejection Seat certification.

The "decent XP" you are earning is more then quadruple what the game used to give. Recent change too, GU8 I believe, possibly GU7. But trust me, it used to be far more rewarding farming ground and killing air was rediculously skimpy point earnings.

Also saying you typically earn 25K XP an hour is meaningless without reference to boosts. That could mean you average 12.5K unboosted or thereabouts, which is "above average" whereas 25K unboosted is extremely high. Just a pet peeve of mine that people keep doing this, trotting out their XP earning to make a point when the number they are representing has a quantitive value of 50% to 200% of what they are saying without reference to boost.

[omega four]

You made some great points.

My average of 25,000 XPs hunting air assets alone is unboosted. While I know it's not a lot compared to others, I think it's pretty decent considering this is an unboosted number.

I also agree that targeting ground assets used to be much more lucrative (and easier) than it is now.

Originally Posted by phungus

The "decent XP" you are earning is more then quadruple what the game used to give. Recent change too, GU8 I believe, possibly GU7. But trust me, it used to be far more rewarding farming ground and killing air was rediculously skimpy point earnings.

Also saying you typically earn 25K XP an hour is meaningless without reference to boosts. That could mean you average 12.5K unboosted or thereabouts, which is "above average" whereas 25K unboosted is extremely high. Just a pet peeve of mine that people keep doing this, trotting out their XP earning to make a point when the number they are representing has a quantitive value of 50% to 200% of what they are saying without reference to boost.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by omega four

You made some great points.

My average of 25,000 XPs hunting air assets alone is unboosted. While I know it's not a lot compared to others, I think it's pretty decent considering this is an unboosted number.

I also agree that targeting ground assets used to be much more lucrative (and easier) than it is now.

It is still pretty lucrative depending on how much AA they decide to pull. Why I still pull rocketpods these days as the air zerg tends to thin out after a few minutes of fighting. Personally hate it when I pull a fuel pod ESF and all the enemy air decides to go and quit.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Forsaken One

I keep hearing the word/term skill being tossed around in this thread.

I'm sorry but expecting even a inch on the screen lead of something that can move in three dimensions is worse then trying to hit a ADADing unnerfed ZoE with a pistol. To make matters worse that can be further hitbox F****ed by the turning/spinning of the aircraft. Everyone whined about ADADing on the ground, no one understands that Air is 3 times worse to hit even if hitbox is bigger.

That's why they allow AA rounds to explode once they are 4 meters off of our air craft. Just have to get close not a direct hit so not a very good comparison in my opinion.

[fierce deity]

Originally Posted by Forsaken One

Needing air to kill air? really? So you're saying that balance is totally screwed, because when something is its only real counter thats when you know its overpowered to "godhood" levels.

I disagree. Air should be the best and primary counter to air. The Skyguard should be second best. G2A missiles and bursters should be tied for third.

Here is how I think the air game should work:

1. The Liberator should be the undisputed king of A2G.
2. Galaxies deliver the troops same as always.
3. ESFs primary jobs are to:
   1. Keep the skies clear for friendly Liberators and Galaxies. ESFs fly as fighter escorts like P-51 Mustangs escorting B-17s to and from the target in WWII.
   2. Kill enemy Liberators and Galaxies.
   3. ESFs take out ground threats only when the above is satisfied or when absolutely necessary.
4. Skyguards act as the long range G2A deterrent. G2A rockets and Burster Maxes tie for close range G2A deterrent.

There is one problem preventing this ideal situation, Rocket Pods. They are still too good and encourage ESFs to spam them against ground like there is no tomorrow. I would much rather have ESFs get 2 drop bombs per life so pilots will be careful in deciding when to use them. As I see it, any ESF pilot that is lolpoding point A, when point B is either being attacked by enemy libs or friendly libs are under attack by enemy esfs, isn't doing his job.

[snafus]

Though I see plenty of idiot ESF ignore enemy aircraft as they farm ground targets.Those pilots are generally useless anyway and would be shot down in the attempt at engaging air. Any of the competent pilots that are farming ground always keep an eye upward watching for their true enemy which is air. I for one utilize rocket pods to give my outfit close A2G support. But you can bet your ass if your ESF or LIB renders to me it is game on. Air craft have always been the best counter to other aircraft. Even with the stupid OP AA season we went through air usually finished the kill.

The best thing any of you can do is train up your air wing with the appropriate priorities in mind. If you start pushing your air wings to always focus in the sky and make your A2G a secondary then you will start noticing a massive reduction in Lib and ESF farming taking place near you. And if you lack an air wing by god start working with an outfit that does have one.

But I have also said ESF rocket pods are still to varied in damage they can do. I am still hoping that ESF will be given two selections for rocket pods HE/AP. With these changes you will require ESF pilots to make a tactical decision before taking off changing the game for the better.

[CrankyTRex]

Originally Posted by fierce deity

I disagree. Air should be the best and primary counter to air. The Skyguard should be second best. G2A missiles and bursters should be tied for third.

Here is how I think the air game should work:

1. The Liberator should be the undisputed king of A2G.
2. Galaxies deliver the troops same as always.
3. ESFs primary jobs are to:
   1. Keep the skies clear for friendly Liberators and Galaxies. ESFs fly as fighter escorts like P-51 Mustangs escorting B-17s to and from the target in WWII.
   2. Kill enemy Liberators and Galaxies.
   3. ESFs take out ground threats only when the above is satisfied or when absolutely necessary.
4. Skyguards act as the long range G2A deterrent. G2A rockets and Burster Maxes tie for close range G2A deterrent.

There is one problem preventing this ideal situation, Rocket Pods. They are still too good and encourage ESFs to spam them against ground like there is no tomorrow. I would much rather have ESFs get 2 drop bombs per life so pilots will be careful in deciding when to use them. As I see it, any ESF pilot that is lolpoding point A, when point B is either being attacked by enemy libs or friendly libs are under attack by enemy esfs, isn't doing his job.

I'd agree with most of that.

As much as people like to complain about "Airside", this game isn't supposed to be "Infantryside" either. It shouldn't be infantry's responsibility to do everything, and it's weird to me that people are perfectly willing to grab a Max or jump in a tank with an AA gun but grabbing an ESF to do that job even though that's what it's for is apparently anathema. It's not like they're hard to get or take too long to get anywhere.

I don't think that rocket pods are the problem per say, it's more rocket pods combined with the maneuverability of the aircraft at hover. Air will always dominate open ground (if it's working properly), but PS2 never bothered to create any closed ground outside of Biolabs, and anything that could've accidentally worked as closed ground is still viable for aircraft that can maneuver so easily at a hover.

The damage nerfs and buffs have always been simply a band-aid on the closed ground problem, which is really what has to be fixed (along with all the base design mechanics that not only encourage but outright require the kind of farming that ends up happening.)

[omega four]

Agreed. I really wish SOE allowed gamers to swap out ESF configurations (A2AM, Rocketpods) as needed, much like it allows gamers to change infantry classes as needed.

Originally Posted by snafus

It is still pretty lucrative depending on how much AA they decide to pull. Why I still pull rocketpods these days as the air zerg tends to thin out after a few minutes of fighting. Personally hate it when I pull a fuel pod ESF and all the enemy air decides to go and quit.

[omega four]

I disagree. I think the Skyguard should be tied with ESFs as being the best and primary hard counter to ESFs.

There are some pilots who are head and shoulders better than most. Having other ESFs manned by inferior pilots serve as the best and primary hard counters to these ACE pilots is a recipe for disaster. Look at BF2 and BF3 for examples of this mechanic.

Allowing Skyguards to also serve (along with ESFs) as the best, primary hard counter to ESFs means that ace pilots will not rule all of Auraxis with an indomitable, indisputable iron fist.

Originally Posted by fierce deity

I disagree. Air should be the best and primary counter to air. The Skyguard should be second best. G2A missiles and bursters should be tied for third.

Here is how I think the air game should work:

1. The Liberator should be the undisputed king of A2G.
2. Galaxies deliver the troops same as always.
3. ESFs primary jobs are to:
   1. Keep the skies clear for friendly Liberators and Galaxies. ESFs fly as fighter escorts like P-51 Mustangs escorting B-17s to and from the target in WWII.
   2. Kill enemy Liberators and Galaxies.
   3. ESFs take out ground threats only when the above is satisfied or when absolutely necessary.
4. Skyguards act as the long range G2A deterrent. G2A rockets and Burster Maxes tie for close range G2A deterrent.

There is one problem preventing this ideal situation, Rocket Pods. They are still too good and encourage ESFs to spam them against ground like there is no tomorrow. I would much rather have ESFs get 2 drop bombs per life so pilots will be careful in deciding when to use them. As I see it, any ESF pilot that is lolpoding point A, when point B is either being attacked by enemy libs or friendly libs are under attack by enemy esfs, isn't doing his job.

[omega four]

Agreed.

I can't tell you how many times I've had an enemy ESF on my tail and flown right by my own faction's ESFs, only to see my faction's ESFs ignore the enemy ESF hunting me down.

My faction's ESFs just couldn't be bothered to help out a fellow ESF and just continued to attack ground forces.

Originally Posted by snafus

Though I see plenty of idiot ESF ignore enemy aircraft as they farm ground targets.Those pilots are generally useless anyway and would be shot down in the attempt at engaging air. Any of the competent pilots that are farming ground always keep an eye upward watching for their true enemy which is air. I for one utilize rocket pods to give my outfit close A2G support. But you can bet your ass if your ESF or LIB renders to me it is game on. Air craft have always been the best counter to other aircraft. Even with the stupid OP AA season we went through air usually finished the kill.

The best thing any of you can do is train up your air wing with the appropriate priorities in mind. If you start pushing your air wings to always focus in the sky and make your A2G a secondary then you will start noticing a massive reduction in Lib and ESF farming taking place near you. And if you lack an air wing by god start working with an outfit that does have one.

But I have also said ESF rocket pods are still to varied in damage they can do. I am still hoping that ESF will be given two selections for rocket pods HE/AP. With these changes you will require ESF pilots to make a tactical decision before taking off changing the game for the better.

[Eggy]

Originally Posted by omega four

Now, I wish they'd reduce the range of the TR Striker RPG. It's the most effective AA RPG weapon by far and gives TR an unfair advantage in clearing out the skies. The NC and VS have nothing like it in their arsenal.

The NS - annihilator, the VS-Nemesis, the NC-Hawk and the TR-Grounder all lockon to enemy air and all have the exact same lockon range of 500m.