News: Resolved - PS2 Region - Page 68

Stew · 2012-03-20, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Duddy

I think everyone wants a good gameplay experience, Stew.

As you point out however to Shogun, this is all down to ones own perception and experiences, and that includes your own.

The idea of region locked and additional unlocked servers has bounced through here already, so you're not alone on that thought. It does bring up the issue of segregating the player base (potentially needlessly) once again though.

As has been echoed so many a time, I think we all need to experience it before we can ultimately say one way or the other.

No its not a segregation its ensuring thats most people can have a great stable experience by having a options to get LAG free regions lock servers

And also Allowing players to get region Unlock servers for those who want to use them at anytime

So i dont see the problem some region lock servers some regions unlock servers ...

Everones happy no ? is the server have to all be unlock ? or all lock ?

Why cant we have a majority lock to get a more stable and fluid experience for most people ..

And also have a regions unlocks servers for those who want to use them ?

Iam for both iam not agains anything or anyones

basti · 2012-03-20, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Stew

No its not a segregation its ensuring thats most people can have a great stable experience by having a options to get LAG free regions lock servers

And also Allowing players to get region Unlock servers for those who want to use them at anytime

So i dont see the problem some region lock servers some regions unlock servers ...

Everones happy no ? is the server have to all be unlock ? or all lock ?

Why cant we have a majority lock to get a more stable and fluid experience for most people ..

And also have a regions unlocks servers for those who want to use them ?

Iam for both iam not agains anything or anyones

Looking at it that way, yea, maybe some region lock servers wouldnt hurt.

But that never was the issue. What the issue was is that SOE and Pro7 wanted to split us up completly, to the point that a Euro cant play any SOE game in NA, and that a NA cant play any SOE game managed by Pro7.
That would mean a full split of a whole lot of groups. Most of the outfits that grew since the Werner -> Gemini Merge got people from the other region. They want to stay together, obviously. And community is the most important thing in any MMO. its THE selling point. The reason why WOW got that big was not because it was a brilliant game, but it was because a whole lot of communitys had a few people who went to WOW because they once played Warcraft. Once those few people got into WOW, their friends came along as well. Thats the success of WOW.
A full region lock would completly destroy that potential for Planetside 2.

Shade Millith · 2012-03-20, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by basti

Looking at it that way, yea, maybe some region lock servers wouldnt hurt.

But that never was the issue. What the issue was is that SOE and Pro7 wanted to split us up completly, to the point that a Euro cant play any SOE game in NA, and that a NA cant play any SOE game managed by Pro7.
That would mean a full split of a whole lot of groups. Most of the outfits that grew since the Werner -> Gemini Merge got people from the other region. They want to stay together, obviously. And community is the most important thing in any MMO. its THE selling point. The reason why WOW got that big was not because it was a brilliant game, but it was because a whole lot of communitys had a few people who went to WOW because they once played Warcraft. Once those few people got into WOW, their friends came along as well. Thats the success of WOW.
A full region lock would completly destroy that potential for Planetside 2.

Heh, I'm imagining the shitstorm if Bliz went full region lock.

Would make EQ2 guys look freaking tiny.

Shanesan · 2012-03-20, 02:50 PM

HOLY CRAP, guys.

The majority of you are talking out of your behind. I've read the last three pages and this is what I'm seeing:

Now fracking listen up. I've done a couple years of MMO game administration on servers spanning thousands of users and I would like to think that I have a little bit of insight for all of you.

To figure out why SoE is WRONG on their decision to limit players on to where they can go, lets enquire...

Where Do Players Come From?
Planetside 2 players will be coming from a variety of games, namely these for starters:

Planetside
Team Fortress 2
Call of Duty
Battlefield
All Points Bulletin
WWII Online

These people have been gaining friends and aquaintances on their Steam friends, Origin friends & Outfits over, for some, the last 12 years. NONE of these games have restrictions on who they can play with. It doesn't matter how successful or amazing a game is, my experience has provent that players will not play a game as often if their friends are forced to not play with them due to a locking mechanism unless they have exclusive privilege. People who don't dedicate actual time or establish personal connection to their game because of their friends being unable to play are also less likely to buy from a cash shop. In fact, I don't think there has been a first person shooter to be region locked before on the PC. Please verify.

Region locking segregates people which effects the bottom line.

Are There Reasons for Region-Locking?

This is a touch question to answer. It depends on the following situations:

Competance of the Coders
Executive Decisions
Crude Content
Governmental Influences
Deployment

With incompetent coders, you will need a region lock. If the netcode is bad or requires low pings because of the inability to fancy footwork the net code, be it client, server, or both hit detection or what have you, region-locking will be necessary. Look at the game Vindictus for shitty net code and a region-lock requirement.

With crappy executive decisions, you will need a region lock. Usually bad deals with other companies for sales or distribution will necessitate a region lock. SoE is suffering from this at the moment.

Crude Content may necessitate a region lock. A map shaped like a nazi symbol or other CRITICAL portions of a game (not textures or blood - they can be changed per location) may require a region lock.

Government Influence may necessitate a region lock. China, with their firewalls of death, bring pings easily to 500+. You cannot work around that. You must region lock.

Putting all these together, the general deployment of the game may require a region lock. If one of the above systems fails in some way, a region lock will likely be necessary.

In conclusion, region locks are for companies who cannot do something competently and have to sacrifice to release their game. Of course, this sacrifice can significantly influence the bottom line and effect the game from that point on until its inevitable demise. Any company who actually does this intentionally for none of the reasons above is positively vile and equally stupid.

SuperMorto · 2012-03-20, 02:55 PM

Region lock does not need to happen in this day and age, Therefore it should not.

Simples!!

Eyeklops · 2012-03-20, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Duddy

I'm sorry Stew, but your writing style makes your posts a chore to read. I apologise if English is perhaps not your first language, but if it is then you really need to expend some more effort in communicating clearly. I Agree. I see his points, but damn his post was tough to read

To talk about an example I have personal experience with, Global Agenda allows you to freely choose which region you play in and from what I heard, Tribes Ascend (also by HiRez Studios) allows for this too. Here is a sample of Global Agenda with high ping. Effects of lag in Global Agenda

As others have noted, it is the player playing outside of their regions that will suffer the ill effects of their decision, not so much the native players. This may have been the case in the days where we relied on CSHD, but in the age of SSHD and hybridised models it really doesn't work how you perceive it to.

Naturally, we have no way to judge how it will work/behave in PS2, so perhaps you should wait and see before declaring it won't work. I agree, again.[/B]

Replies in RED

Skitrel · 2012-03-20, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

I would put Starcraft 2 in a whole different basket from a gameplay perspective. What Starcraft 2 can get away with ping wise, and still play nice, is probably not true for an FPS title.

Not true.

Latency in Starcraft causes a delay between your click and the action actually happening in game, as everything is server side. What this means is that any latency at all greatly diminishes your speed, every action you take taking up just 100ms of your time as opposed to 50ms effectively halves your speed, it's MUCH more of a problem in Starcraft where APM (actions per minute) need to be in the hundreds to be competitive, with some of the pros clocking as high as 300 real APM in matches.

Compared to an FPS, 100ms is absolutely nothing in time and doesn't have a cumulative effect throughout the game.

Now, if you had said Brood War, I'd have agreed with you. Brood War compensated for this issue, it has an in built forced latency of 200ms for all players, this puts everyone at an absolute level playing field, eliminating player advantage due to server distance.

Ping is much less of an issue in competitive fps than in competitive rts.

Eyeklops · 2012-03-20, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Not true.

Latency in Starcraft causes a delay between your click and the action actually happening in game, as everything is server side. What this means is that any latency at all greatly diminishes your speed, every action you take taking up just 100ms of your time as opposed to 50ms effectively halves your speed, it's MUCH more of a problem in Starcraft where APM (actions per minute) need to be in the hundreds to be competitive, with some of the pros clocking as high as 300 real APM in matches.

Compared to an FPS, 100ms is absolutely nothing in time and doesn't have a cumulative effect throughout the game.

Now, if you had said Brood War, I'd have agreed with you. Brood War compensated for this issue, it has an in built forced latency of 200ms for all players, this puts everyone at an absolute level playing field, eliminating player advantage due to server distance.

Ping is much less of an issue in competitive fps than in competitive rts.

After some research on Starcraft 2, my findings agreed with you. I have therefore retracted my above "apples N oranges" statement.

Kran De Loy · 2012-03-21, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

If I were going to hazard a guess, you're either under 16 or a troll.

I'm saddened that you believe 15 yr olds are allowed to act like him.

I didn't even bother to read his last 5 posts as the first 2 or 3 made me feel like I was gauging out my own eyes with a rusty spoon.

Originally Posted by Shanesan

HOLY CRAP, guys.

The majority of you are talking out of your behind. I've read the last three pages and this is what I'm seeing:

Now fracking listen up. I've done a couple years of MMO game administration on servers spanning thousands of users and I would like to think that I have a little bit of insight for all of you.

To figure out why SoE is WRONG on their decision to limit players on to where they can go, lets enquire...

Where Do Players Come From?
Planetside 2 players will be coming from a variety of games, namely these for starters:

Planetside
Team Fortress 2
Call of Duty
Battlefield
All Points Bulletin
WWII Online

These people have been gaining friends and aquaintances on their Steam friends, Origin friends & Outfits over, for some, the last 12 years. NONE of these games have restrictions on who they can play with. It doesn't matter how successful or amazing a game is, my experience has provent that players will not play a game as often if their friends are forced to not play with them due to a locking mechanism unless they have exclusive privilege. People who don't dedicate actual time or establish personal connection to their game because of their friends being unable to play are also less likely to buy from a cash shop. In fact, I don't think there has been a first person shooter to be region locked before on the PC. Please verify.

Region locking segregates people which effects the bottom line.

Are There Reasons for Region-Locking?

This is a touch question to answer. It depends on the following situations:

Competance of the Coders
Executive Decisions
Crude Content
Governmental Influences
Deployment

With incompetent coders, you will need a region lock. If the netcode is bad or requires low pings because of the inability to fancy footwork the net code, be it client, server, or both hit detection or what have you, region-locking will be necessary. Look at the game Vindictus for shitty net code and a region-lock requirement.

With crappy executive decisions, you will need a region lock. Usually bad deals with other companies for sales or distribution will necessitate a region lock. SoE is suffering from this at the moment.

Crude Content may necessitate a region lock. A map shaped like a nazi symbol or other CRITICAL portions of a game (not textures or blood - they can be changed per location) may require a region lock.

Government Influence may necessitate a region lock. China, with their firewalls of death, bring pings easily to 500+. You cannot work around that. You must region lock.

Putting all these together, the general deployment of the game may require a region lock. If one of the above systems fails in some way, a region lock will likely be necessary.

In conclusion, region locks are for companies who cannot do something competently and have to sacrifice to release their game. Of course, this sacrifice can significantly influence the bottom line and effect the game from that point on until its inevitable demise. Any company who actually does this intentionally for none of the reasons above is positively vile and equally stupid.

I love you.

SgtMAD · 2012-03-21, 08:02 AM

the bean counters at SOE don't give a shit about all this talk about pings and everything else for the last couple of pages.

it was a financial deal to defer development costs upfront,the only things SOE had to sell was the communities that play their (SOE) games online combined with the promise of PS2,they sold their playerbase,first in China and now in Europe,SOE has to go back and convince Pro7(?) to now give back that old playerbase which is a huge part of the original deal.

if it isn't kept on the front burner you will never get the results you want

Maarvy · 2012-03-21, 08:19 AM

Speaking as one of the leaders of a very large mixed nationality guild region locking would probably stop us moving to ps2 in force , sure some people would still play individualy on there various severs but the majority wouldnt bother and simply play something where we are not restricted .

megamold · 2012-03-21, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Maarvy

Speaking as one of the leaders of a very large mixed nationality guild region locking would probably stop us moving to ps2 in force , sure some people would still play individualy on there various severs but the majority wouldnt bother and simply play something where we are not restricted .

sure i can see how it sucks to not be able to play with friends/outfitmembers overseas, but it sure wouldnt stop me from still playing the game.