Driver/Gunners... NO! - Page 7

fod · 2012-07-10, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Azarga

I'm all for Driver-gunners.

I drive well. I shoot well. I can efficiently do both at the same time. I buy the tank with my own resources. Why should I allow someone potentially decrease the effectiveness of _my_ tank by manning my tank's main gun and being bad at, well, shooting?

Shooting is basicaly half of the tank's usefulness, amirite? This person have to be very good gunner to rich the driver-gunner efficiency simply because driver-gunner always knows how his tank will move next moment, he doesn't have to react to it, he fully controls it.

Teamwork is great and stuff, but only when it contributes to efficiency, not limits it. Let the secondary gun be powerful enough, that will make a gunner a welcome addition to a unit if he's good, but won't cut unit's effectiveness by half if he's lame.

what if the driver cant shoot well?

I drive well. I buy the tank with my own resources. Why cant I allow someone to potentially increase the effectiveness of _my_ tank by manning my tank's main gun and being good at, well, shooting?

is this not contributing to efficiency?

TheDAWinz · 2012-07-10, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by fod

what if the driver cant shoot well?

I drive well. I buy the tank with my own resources. Why cant I allow someone to potentially increase the effectiveness of _my_ tank by manning my tank's main gun and being good at, well, shooting?

is this not contributing to efficiency?

Because you may drive off somewhere and he will be still focused on a target, then you will get blown to shit because he was still focused somewhere, atleast when you drive you are aware of your surroundings.

Khellendros · 2012-07-10, 06:04 PM

I second the motion that the driver should have as many configuration options as possible, such as delegating main guns to driver and whatnot.

I consider this essential.

Sephirex · 2012-07-10, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by fod

what if the driver cant shoot well?

I drive well. I buy the tank with my own resources. Why cant I allow someone to potentially increase the effectiveness of _my_ tank by manning my tank's main gun and being good at, well, shooting?

is this not contributing to efficiency?

Agreed, I'm a terrible shot myself!
In fact for the infantry portions of the game, I would love Wii mote support. That way my nephew can work the gun and shoot at enemies, while I concentrate on movement.
I just don't see myself playing this game any other way.

fod · 2012-07-10, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by TheDAWinz

Because you may drive off somewhere and he will be still focused on a target, then you will get blown to shit because he was still focused somewhere, atleast when you drive you are aware of your surroundings.

also he might see a threat that you did not and handle it without you even knowing

it can work both ways

TheDAWinz · 2012-07-10, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Sephirex

Agreed, I'm a terrible shot myself!
In fact for the infantry portions of the game, I would love Wii mote support. That way my nephew can work the gun and shoot at enemies, while I concentrate on movement.
I just don't see myself playing this game any other way.

Thanks for the laugh man.

Originally Posted by fod

also he might see a threat that you did not and handle it without you even knowing

it can work both ways

Yeah, and you would still do jack shit. You would still drive off untill its too late.

Furret · 2012-07-10, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by MrKWalmsley

You are forgetting a pretty simple and obvious solution to this. Build the damn thing, then get out, and let your partner get in, thereby taking the driver seat. Seriously, I cannot see how you did not see this blatant fix which would take only a few seconds.

Did you even play ps1? You need the cert to drive it, not just to pull it.

Littleman · 2012-07-10, 06:08 PM

If it's possible to give the driver the choice to hand off the handling of the main cannon to the "gunner," allowing the option is obviously the answer.

However, if it's not something that can be done without an overhaul of some kind (especially regarding the Magrider,) then sticking with the driver-gunners concept is for the best in my opinion.

fod · 2012-07-10, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by TheDAWinz

Yeah, and you would still do jack shit. You would still drive off untill its too late.

"you would still do jack shit" i dont get this can you explain further?

there has been many MANY times in ps1 when my gunner/gunners have got kills that i did not know about - people behind me while i was concentrating ahead or while trying to escape battle the gunner takes out the tank following me

BorisBlade · 2012-07-10, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Traingye

Also I don't think we should underestimate the importance of the AA turret manned by a gunner. I think with this position empty the tank is going to be a sitting duck to air vehicles.

No, not true at all. You can instantly magically switch to any seat in the vehicle without gettin out. So if you are driving along and need aa, hit your seat switch button and instantly fire your aa, just as easy as a fire mode switch. There is no real downside to not having a gunner unless your secondary gun is also AV in which case you'd want em both firing at the same time.

Letting drivers gun and letting them do instant magic switching inside the vehicle is just lame and boring. Teamwork comes down to working in vehicles too. Vehicles just turn into overgrown maxes when they are solo. Its simplistic and lame and not epic in the least.

Seeing a bunch of multi crewed tanks coming at you feels epic. When its just a bunch of lame solo tanks, its boring run of the mill and just seems like a bunch of people with an armor buff instead of actual tanks and a real battle.

The game just loses alot of its epic feel when its every man for himself and just a bunch of rambos runnin around with armor buffs rather than real multi crewed tanks.

Plus not having that fun of workin with teammates in a vehicle is lost and that is one of the best ways to keep people playing by giving them fun social experiences. In a game that needs to last more than an initial sell, the social aspect is very important. Just in a squad together is no where near the same as being in the same vehicle, not even close.

CorvicM · 2012-07-10, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by Azarga

I'm all for Driver-gunners.

I drive well. I shoot well. I can efficiently do both at the same time. I buy the tank with my own resources. Why should I allow someone potentially decrease the effectiveness of _my_ tank by manning my tank's main gun and being bad at, well, shooting?

Shooting is basicaly half of the tank's usefulness, amirite? This person have to be very good gunner to rich the driver-gunner efficiency simply because driver-gunner always knows how his tank will move next moment, he doesn't have to react to it, he fully controls it.

Teamwork is great and stuff, but only when it contributes to efficiency, not limits it. Let the secondary gun be powerful enough, that will make a gunner a welcome addition to a unit if he's good, but won't cut unit's effectiveness by half if he's lame.

Originally Posted by SixShooter

As a long time lightning fan I'm not at all concerned with the diver/gunner issue. I will of course make sure that I have a good secondary gunner whenever I'm in a Mag. The top gunner can make all the difference in PS2 it seems.

So what im getting here is that you all want to shoot and drive at the same time, that's fine. but then why not remove the lightning as u are just about the same as one just beefier and slightly (if at all) slower.

thats the problem there is no need for the lightning. so u can fit a "gunner" that can have a peashooter. and the point is?

Littleman · 2012-07-10, 06:13 PM

Boris, your sig, you'll be waiting a LONG time...

Seat switching has a timer attached to it. Certs reduce the time it takes to switch seats. Same for exiting the vehicle.

TheDAWinz · 2012-07-10, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by fod

"you would still do jack shit" i dont get this can you explain further?

there has been many MANY times in ps1 when my gunner/gunners have got kills that i did not know about - people behind me while i was concentrating ahead or while trying to escape battle the gunner takes out the tank following me

I've played ARMA 2 enough to where the point where i was gunning in the ABRAMS and im like Dude turn this fucking behemoth around theres a fucking tank on our 8 oclock man! Too late, we are dead.

Bruttal · 2012-07-10, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by RadarX

I believe Matt Higby has addressed this a few times. While the potential for gunners in certain vehicles is a possibility, many vehicles will have the driver as the gunner. This is the design system the dev team has chosen to utilize at this time.

I still think the magrider needs a redesign so they can have a poviting turret atop, ID inless they turn incredibly fast then its just a huge sitting duck.

KaB · 2012-07-10, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by TheDAWinz

Because a irresponsible driver in charge of three people would waste more resources then being in charge of two people. Simple as that.

If the driver is the vehicle's buyer, and if he's able to get any passengers he wants out of the vehicle, that would solve your problem. Oh... But SOE already thought about this idea many years ago for PS1.