Does the Prowler really need a nerf?

[Twido]

Originally Posted by Chewy

This is a big part of the argument on what an exploit is in gaming. We all should know of strafe jumping and how that "skill" alone made some games into what they are now. When in truth that "skill" was a rather big exploit that the players took advantage of in times before patches could fix such things. Why do you guys think strafe jumping was removed and/or not seen in near ANYTHING made today? It became and still is THE thing that matters the most within competitive gaming of games like Quake. If you don't use strafe jumping then you will fail no matter how good you are. Why do we not see things like that anymore? Because they are exploits and Devs can fix the damned things, maybe even before damage can be done.

It's gotten to the point where people look for exploits without thinking about it and call them skills just because it's in the game. Well I have something to tell about that. We are all human and humans are a bunch of idiots, developers included. Some things are missed and some are not, live with the fixes to their works and find the next thing to abuse so it can be see and fixed.

I hear that using a pistol in a tanks rear left tire can disable it, maybe some of you should go and try it.

These are my thoughts exactly (although you wrote it far better than I would have done)

[Tenhi]

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Good question, I don't know. I guess it would make sense if that was so.

"Prowler HEAT / HE rounds have had their damage reduced to no longer 1-shot kill infantry, killing a full health infantry will require both Prowler rounds to be fired. This does not affect vs. vehicle damage."

That part makes me think that the two are seperate.

The "This does not affect vs. vehicle damage." part is simple. Vehicles dont take splash damage. If they only nerf the splash damage (and thats what I belive Higby meant?) then the dmg vs. vehicles is the same because they only take the unchanged direct damage. Prowler HE has a direct damge of 650, if they still want you to one-shot Infantry with direct hits you need, depending on Flak Armor and Nanoweave, 250 - 700 splash damage.

On a sidenote. Does anyone know if direct hits first deal their direct damage and then the splash or the other way around? Would be intresting to know for Flak Armor Targets because the 50% only apply to your HP and not to your shield as far as I know.

Originally Posted by ringring

Where do you get your data from.

I doesn't make any sense that prowler has twice the firepower simply because it has twice the guns. Normal guns don't work that way.

Also, a couple of months ago Higby actually said that all tanks have identical dps.

The Prowler had lower splash damge during the beta... but that got buffed because the prowler sucked against tanks... a wise decision by SOE. If you want the data there is an (old) Spreadsheet from Beta (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1MV83X1E&gid=0)... and innocivs site ps2calc.com. ps2calc doesnt have the splash values but the correct reload times etc.

Oh and Higby never mentioned that the Tanks have the identical dps. If he ever stated that I would love to see a source.

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

The two barrels is the mechanism used to create the empire defining feature. IE: Re-fire rate. It is not one gun, its a higher re-fire rate.

They do not strafe or always have the strongest armor facing forward, they do not punch with high damage or have a shield.

Actually if both Prowler shells hit it does more damage than one Vanguard shell . Pre GU2 it was the exact same damage... a Prowler shell was exactly half a Vanguard shell.

Also saying its the empire defining feature doesnt mean its allowed to be imbalanced? Its like me saying I want 100km/h strafe because thats the defining feature of the Magrider is strafing.

Oh and dont mention "strongest armor facing forward"... thats not an inherently good thing. While its cool at long range where your enemy comes from one direction its pretty bad at urban warfare... simply because you have to turn your whole tank to see whats around you. The Magrider, while being great at long ranges, has a horrible situational awareness and thus sucks at close range (you are basically blind to everything outside of your 90° front arc).

[ChipMHazard]

Originally Posted by Tenhi

The "This does not affect vs. vehicle damage." part is simple. Vehicles dont take splash damage. If they only nerf the splash damage (and thats what I belive Higby meant?) then the dmg vs. vehicles is the same because they only take the unchanged direct damage. Prowler HE has a direct damge of 650, if they still want you to one-shot Infantry with direct hits you need, depending on Flak Armor and Nanoweave, 250 - 700 splash damage.

On a sidenote. Does anyone know if direct hits first deal their direct damage and then the splash or the other way around? Would be intresting to know for Flak Armor Targets because the 50% only apply to your HP and not to your shield as far as I know.

Makes sense and after having looked at the ps2calc I would agree with you.

I would really like to know how exactly rounds deal damage.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Tenhi

Actually if both Prowler shells hit it does more damage than one Vanguard shell . Pre GU2 it was the exact same damage... a Prowler shell was exactly half a Vanguard shell.

Thats the higher rate of fire, it comes in a two shot succession.

Also saying its the empire defining feature doesnt mean its allowed to be imbalanced?

Not what I said. I bought it up, because the more and more empire asymmetry gets whittled away, the more we loose those identities. DPS is not the defining feature in a Planetside title.

[Tenhi]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Thats the higher rate of fire, it comes in a two shot succession.

Not what I said. I bought it up, because the more and more empire asymmetry gets whittled away, the more we loose those identities. DPS is not the defining feature in a Planetside title.

Where do they whittle away the asymmetry for the tanks? The Prowler still has two guns and shoots faster than the other two tanks, plus it has the highest speed (even if that point doesnt really work out in real combat). The Vanguard still has more armor and the Magrider still has the best mobility.

And while I agree that DPS isnt defining for PS2 that doesnt mean you can give one side more than double the DPS. Magrider HE Splash is ~210DPS, Vanguards is even worse with 200DPS and the Prowler has a whooping ~479DPS. Comparing Vanguard HE to Prowler HE the Prowler has ~2.4x the DPS.