SmedBlog: Harvestable Resources - Page 8

Helwyr · 2012-08-13, 03:08 PM

ANT type gathering for the entire Empire (not individual or outfit) might be ok. But really it would be better if resources were automatically generated from held territory.

Perhaps ANT like vehicles would allow you to steal some needed resources for your empire from another empire's territory, without having to capture that territory.

Oh and I seriously cringe every time EVE is brought up as an example to follow. That game becomes more like space WoW with every update. Not a game to mimic for any MMO, let alone a MMOFPS.

RoninOni · 2012-08-13, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Helwyr

ANT type gathering for the entire Empire (not individual or outfit) might be ok. But really it would be better if resources were automatically generated from held territory.

Perhaps ANT like vehicles would allow you to steal some needed resources for your empire from another empire's territory.

Oh and I seriously cringe every time EVE is brought up as an example to follow. That game becomes more like space WoW with every update. Not a game to mimic for any MMO, let alone a MMOFPS.

I think these Harvesters (modified ANT's I'd imagine) would actually be part of certain resource type bases automated function.

These vehicles could be manually driven and supported with light defense turrets... maybe used to steal resources... or just to increase the efficiency/survivability of fringe territory mining.

Raids could be made on enemy harvesters to reduce enemy faction resource generation.

vVRedOctoberVv · 2012-08-13, 03:58 PM

The only problem I really see with drivable harvesters like this, is the ease with which people would start botting.

Kipper · 2012-08-13, 04:13 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong (long time ago) but if you didn't get an ANT to a base in PS1, it dropped the shields, right? Are they saying that was taken out because it was boring if you had to constantly replenish the base or risk losing it?

So based on that, I do like the idea of having automated harvesters generated at a base which went around vacuuming up resources; they could be relied upon to keep the base stocked and healthy but would be destroyable (worth no XP themselves) which opens up a vulnerability in the base.

Do have it so that you don't need to drive the harvesters yourself. Also have it so that you can cert on a galaxy or sundy to sacrifice crew space for resource space, and do have it so that if you can't hold onto your harvesters, you can still keep a base topped up from another base (which tops itself up from its own harvesters).

Maybe also have it so that the consequences of losing power to the base aren't so harsh as meaning that all hope is lost - maybe half the spawn rate, or double the timers for being able to pull vehicles or something, so its enough of a reason for people to want to attack (and defend) the resource gatherers, but not so much that if you don't, its game over at that facility.

Also have it so that destroyed harvesters respawn themselves after a timer ticks through, but will attempt to recall themselves and put out a distress signal if they get put under direct attack (and have plenty of hitpoints) so that defenders can get time to stage a rescue & escort them back in.

It opens up tactical opportunties to feint an attack on the harvester to draw defences away from the base, likewise, a counter attack on an enemy harvester might draw attackers away from somewhere to defend their own, etc.

I'd love to see some interaction possible between players and bases, and between bases so that they could confer benefits to each other - meaning that even though you can attack anything, there are viable different strategies (as in, do I attack radar to blind the enemy, or airfields to control the skies, or bio labs to slow down their global spawn, etc etc).

Crator · 2012-08-13, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kipper

Correct me if I'm wrong (long time ago) but if you didn't get an ANT to a base in PS1, it dropped the shields, right? Are they saying that was taken out because it was boring if you had to constantly replenish the base or risk losing it?

No idea why they removed the ANT TBH. In PS1, if the base ran out of NTUs (fuel) it would simply have no power. You couldn't spawn or get equipment/vehicles or use the wall turrets. Also when a base went neutral it would loose empire ownership. You had to hack a neutral base and wait the 15 minutes for the hack. And also you had to fuel the base with more NTUs using an ANT before the hack was finished or you had to re-hack again.

You only got shields on a base if you had a shield module installed from the Core Complex. If you killed the generator/hacked the base/or there were no NTUs in the base the mods could be removed from the mod holders in the base. The mods were also of no use when the gen wasn't working, even if they were still installed in the base.

KIAsan · 2012-08-13, 04:44 PM

Think this would be a great idea as long as it is done right. These things need to be player controlled (killable) ANT type harvesters that bring back resources for the entire empire. Great way to get that one resource for say your gals, even though the opposing empires have you locked out of that terrain. Of course, the enemy would be on patrol to stop you from doing just that. Creates a great gameplay mechanic.

NPC controlled harvesters aren't good at all. If your empire is locked out of a resource, and are too lazy to put up a resource collection operation, then you deserve to be locked out of something. You want players making positive actions (with the ability of the other sides to counter them) to affect the game, nothing passive/automated.

Key here is empire benefit though. If it only goes to you/your outfit, then we risk starting an economy which would be a horrible idea.

Toppopia · 2012-08-13, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by KIAsan

Think this would be a great idea as long as it is done right. These things need to be player controlled (killable) ANT type harvesters that bring back resources for the entire empire. Great way to get that one resource for say your gals, even though the opposing empires have you locked out of that terrain. Of course, the enemy would be on patrol to stop you from doing just that. Creates a great gameplay mechanic.

NPC controlled harvesters aren't good at all. If your empire is locked out of a resource, and are too lazy to put up a resource collection operation, then you deserve to be locked out of something. You want players making positive actions (with the ability of the other sides to counter them) to affect the game, nothing passive/automated.

Key here is empire benefit though. If it only goes to you/your outfit, then we risk starting an economy which would be a horrible idea.

The only problem with human controlled harvesters is that people come here to not do boring things like harvesting which is more role-playing/RTS style game. But whats wrong with NPC harvesters? You still have to guard them or else they will die. It just means 1 person isn't stuck with the boring task of sitting there doing nothing while everyone else gets to fight.

There could be lots of people that would like mining manually, but enough to make it player controlled?

RoninOni · 2012-08-13, 06:17 PM

NPC harvesters wouldn't mine enemy hexes

They'd be a PART of a resource nodes resource generation.... So a weakness to be attackes by the enemy.

Enhancing these harvesters with the ability to pilot them and drive them to enemy territory to STEAL resources would be another potential use for them.

But I think the main idea is to make 1 or more resource types have a disruptable resource generation (shouldn't be able to totally shutdown resource gen... but the majority of resource gen should come from the npc automated harvesters)

This would also make those types of resource nodes that are right on the border particularly prone to enemy strikes.

KIAsan · 2012-08-13, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

The only problem with human controlled harvesters is that people come here to not do boring things like harvesting which is more role-playing/RTS style game. But whats wrong with NPC harvesters? You still have to guard them or else they will die. It just means 1 person isn't stuck with the boring task of sitting there doing nothing while everyone else gets to fight.

There could be lots of people that would like mining manually, but enough to make it player controlled?

You don't have to have an unarmed ANT to do this. Add a gun slot (configurable turret AI or AV or AA), then let the fun begin. This way you drive the thing to the collection point, you set it up, then you guard the thing. Then the whole thing is still an FPS.

If you need more reason to mine, make it so you DEDUCT that resource from what the enemy would normally collect for free, so even if they have said territory, they need to defend agains enemy incursion that would sap their resources. Would add another dimension to territor protection this way.

Toppopia · 2012-08-13, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by KIAsan

You don't have to have an unarmed ANT to do this. Add a gun slot (configurable turret AI or AV or AA), then let the fun begin. This way you drive the thing to the collection point, you set it up, then you guard the thing. Then the whole thing is still an FPS.

If you need more reason to mine, make it so you DEDUCT that resource from what the enemy would normally collect for free, so even if they have said territory, they need to defend agains enemy incursion that would sap their resources. Would add another dimension to territor protection this way.

Of course the vehicle needs like guns on it that people control, but i was meaning no sitting in the driver seat doing nothing, the turrets should beable to defend against a small number of enemies if all of them are manned, but then you should need extra people defending if you are being attacked by an organised/big enemy force.

Hamma · 2012-08-13, 10:58 PM

That vehicle is badass, hasn't made it into the game thus far I doubt it would be a harvester.

KIAsan · 2012-08-14, 04:12 AM

You could always make the "harvester" a towed vehicle. Then you need to drag it out with a Deliverer, deploy it with your special key, then use the del to defend your towed vehicle.

Kipper · 2012-08-14, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by KIAsan

You could always make the "harvester" a towed vehicle. Then you need to drag it out with a Deliverer, deploy it with your special key, then use the del to defend your towed vehicle.

That's quite a good idea. But in general, if everyone could harvest and get resources, then I kinda see a situation where everyone logs on, groups up, goes off to harvest in friendly territory to get more "money" and nobody attacks anything.

I think players should be directed to the worthy aim of exterminating each other relentlessly and taking their territories.

For me, NPC harvesters that only accessed friendly hexes directly connected to bases would be win - because if you can't assault the base directly, you can make it less useful to the enemy by destroying its resource collection facilities (the vehicles) and by capping hexes nearby to stop its vehicles from accesisng them.

So instead of just having base capture as the only part of the tactical meta game, you've got a reason to attack and defend empty hexes, or these NPC collectors. It should take more people out into the open rather than just concentrating on bases giving a whole different type of gameplay (but that's still concentrating on killing people from the other factions).

Jonny · 2012-08-14, 05:43 AM

I like what Helwyr and RoninOni were touching on with the idea of stealing resources from the enemy (which were generated from territory control).

The longer a large base (ie tech plant/bio dome) is owned by one faction, the more nanites are stockpiled there out of the empires total resource pool. This could be a small percentage of the total amount of resources.

Take a special vehicle to their base and get back to your own and you steal those nanites from that faction. The stockpiled nanites however would not be stolen with normal base capturing. (That would be a major game mechanic change)

Boone · 2012-08-14, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Kipper

That's quite a good idea. But in general, if everyone could harvest and get resources, then I kinda see a situation where everyone logs on, groups up, goes off to harvest in friendly territory to get more "money" and nobody attacks anything.

I think players should be directed to the worthy aim of exterminating each other relentlessly and taking their territories.

For me, NPC harvesters that only accessed friendly hexes directly connected to bases would be win - because if you can't assault the base directly, you can make it less useful to the enemy by destroying its resource collection facilities (the vehicles) and by capping hexes nearby to stop its vehicles from accesisng them.

So instead of just having base capture as the only part of the tactical meta game, you've got a reason to attack and defend empty hexes, or these NPC collectors. It should take more people out into the open rather than just concentrating on bases giving a whole different type of gameplay (but that's still concentrating on killing people from the other factions).

That's why I think there should be lakes that "pop" at random times for you to resource which of course would have a max of how much could be taken out. You can only spawn a gathering vehicle to harvest, this vehicle can only be spawned with the same materials you get out of these lakes.

You could be in a huge battle and message "Lake X now readily available for harvest".

Do you leave to capture the base? Do you leave to gain/stop others from gaining rare materials? I dunno, my thought on it.