Don't dumb down PS2

[MrKWalmsley]

Originally Posted by TheSaltySeagull

IPs like star wars and final fantasy are huge names with huge fan bases and that didnt stop their games from failing.

Got to call you out on that one. Star Wars games are irrelevant to the Star Wars logo since it is not in the same industry. I'm pretty sure if there was a shitty Diablo film it would fail.

The Star Wars prequels were absolute crap as most film critics will tell you, and yet they made a huge amount of money for them. Thus proving that your point is not necessarily the case. It was very weak of you to try and justify your claim by taking something from one medium and saying how much of a flop it is in another, whilst using it to back up your point regarding two things in the same medium.

The reason they flopped is because they didn't cross, and it is even more prevalent the other way around, when they try to turn games into movies rather than the other way around. So bringing up the difficult transition between the Star Wars franchise from movie to game is irrelevant when we are talking about an entity existing entirely in gaming.

[Karrade]

The speeding up of life in general has been going on for many, many years. This is of course reflected in games being a subset of life.

We do lose detail from moments at a faster pace: In a game this is reflected in the mechanics not being as robust or as intricate as they were in games gone by, instead being faster paced, more intense in many ways. We used to have to generate the intensity ourselves through imagination/emotion etc.

Which is better?

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by fod

edit:


im sorry but even as a fellow mordorian i disagree
there is so many things wrong with BF3 that i cant agree with "50% of BF3's problem is small maps"
what about

regeneration?
vehicle disable?
3d spotting?
audio spotting?
auto spotting?
no commander?
supernova sun?
messed up unlocks?
clustered flags?

I say 50% because small map size spmetimes makes it so you can't even enjoy the game enough to sometimes even reach all the other problems. You're not wrong, all of those are problems.

[SixShooter]

Originally Posted by Stew

You have never play battlefield 3 rigth ? Am i rigth ?

Aming down the sigths if the sight isnt a snipers scope Yess its pretty quick and quick enough to react and kill you before you even realise it

Also the iron sigth view is pretty much Instant , Holographics sigth are pretty quick and only sniper scopes take a little delay but its not even a second lol !

I think many people dont even know whats they are talking about Ive made this just for ya buddy take a closer look

BF3 aiming down - YouTube

This proove everything enough said



Exactly , todays games are much better in term of gameplay and games mechanics but sometimes fews features are miss but it seams its not really the case here with ps2 since the vehicules who as been remoove are replace in some way since some others vehicules will have the exact same purpose !

Iam also pretty sure thats down the road we will have much more vehicules and secondary objectives added

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

LOL @ everybody raging over the obvious toll OP

Originally Posted by Kran De Loy

LOL at a community that can be so hyped yet so bored at the same time.

Originally Posted by fod

i diddnt read every page but i do hope that PS2 doesnt turn into a BF3 MMO

the last few days playing PS1 with the huge popluations again has shown me that pretty much every modern FPS game is poop and if PS2 turns into a BF3 MMO i hope they keep the PS1 servers running because i could play for another 9 years (wont happen but i can wish)

edit:


im sorry but even as a fellow mordorian i disagree
there is so many things wrong with BF3 that i cant agree with "50% of BF3's problem is small maps"
what about

regeneration?
vehicle disable?
3d spotting?
audio spotting?
auto spotting?
no commander?
supernova sun?
messed up unlocks?
clustered flags?

theres probably more but i have happily forgotten about that POS of a game - i think the basic gameplay of BF3 is horrible theres pretty much nothing it does right imo

Stew - I have no idea on what you're trying to tell us

I'm totally down with the vehilcle reduction/combintion. The universe runs better when it's less fucked up. Fuck all 'yall because BF3 is fun. If you're hung up on bullshit and can't have fun then I think that is your own fault. Go find a game that makes you happy and quit yer bitchin.

I think Buggsy and whymad are the same angry troll. If not then I'm glad I I live in awesomness and don't have to deal with these fuckers in person (I'm so nerdy that it hurts to have to kill other nerds. I don't make the rules but I do have to enforce them)

**edit**
I'm sorry, this was a very drunk posting...Going outside to watch the sunrise now

[TAA]

Originally Posted by fod

regeneration?
vehicle disable?
3d spotting?
audio spotting?
auto spotting?
no commander?
supernova sun?
messed up unlocks?
clustered flags?

I actually agree with you on a lot of this stuff.

• Regeneration - health regeneration for vehicles is an abomination. Health regeneration for players I can live with. Still this is a big reason why I only play HC mode.
• Vehicle disable - do you mean the point at which they catch on fire, become hard to move and start steadily losing health? I dont see the problem with this.
• 3D spotting - I have no problems with 3D spotting in BF3. At least it lets you tell your team mates where the enemy are when they are beyond range of the mini map and without the use of voice. It is also much better than BFBC2 in that the 3D tag is not visible through any solid objects and rather requires LOS. In fact, my favorite way to play the game on a public server is in HC mode with 3D spotting turned on.
• Audio Spotting - if someone fires their weapon without a silencer they should show up on the mini map. That is the advantage of a silenced weapon. If you want you can always play on servers with SHOW MINIMAP set to OFF.
• Auto Spot - Are you talking about using a script to automatically spot enemies you mouse over for you? That is called cheating. If you are talking about using a macro to spot someone when you press the fire button then that is just useless. Spot becomes unresponsive for several seconds after a few presses. Furthermore if you are firing your weapon you should be aiming to kill the person you are firing at. Spotting is most useful to tell your team where a target is that you might not be able to kill (ie. beyond effective range for your weapon).
• No Commander - I agree that this was a terrible change to the game. It used to be that the commander could talk to the squad leaders, and the squad leaders could talk to the commander. You would follow your squad leader and keep him alive because he was your spawn point and he was taking orders from on high to fit a greater plan. In BF3 normal mode you can spawn on anyone in your squad and there is no greater plan. In HC mode you can spawn on the squad leader, but he is just doing whatever he wants anyway so why bother? I understand why they removed commander mode though - it was a bit daunting for players at first and there was no way to learn it other than to be shoved into the role and to wear the abuse from everyone on your team for not knowing how to play the role.
• Supernova Sun - who cares about the sun. What about the supernova flashlights?
• Messed up unlocks - I dont know what you mean here.
• Clustered flags - It does change the feel of the game but it is not that bad. The Back to Karkand expansion brought back 4 older maps, and they are not necessarily better than the new maps. There are plenty of servers available that use only the biggest maps and they might suit your style of playing better. I myself like the variety, even with the occasional round in Metro thrown into the mix.

Despite agreeing with you on a lot of this I would never say that BF3 is worse than its predecessors. Let me put it this way - if I thought it was worse I would still be playing the predecessors. Yes the game could be better than it is. It is still a fantastic game though.

[NoDachi]

This thread is hilarious.

I got to tip my hat to bugsy, he sure knows how to troll.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by TAA

I actually agree with you on a lot of this stuff.

• Vehicle disable - do you mean the point at which they catch on fire, become hard to move and start steadily losing health? I dont see the problem with this.
• 3D spotting - I have no problems with 3D spotting in BF3. At least it lets you tell your team mates where the enemy are when they are beyond range of the mini map and without the use of voice. It is also much better than BFBC2 in that the 3D tag is not visible through any solid objects and rather requires LOS. In fact, my favorite way to play the game on a public server is in HC mode with 3D spotting turned on.
• Audio Spotting - if someone fires their weapon without a silencer they should show up on the mini map. That is the advantage of a silenced weapon. If you want you can always play on servers with SHOW MINIMAP set to OFF.

Despite agreeing with you on a lot of this I would never say that BF3 is worse than its predecessors. Let me put it this way - if I thought it was worse I would still be playing the predecessors. Yes the game could be better than it is. It is still a fantastic game though.

Disabling is ridiculous. It totally waters down vehicle play, overpowers infantry against vehicles and makes vehicle play frustrating. And I stick to infantry most of the time myself, and even I can see this.

3D spotting is a major problem. If enemies are that far away, you shouldn't need to go beyond the mini map. It's an artificial aid that does all the work. It's 4th wall breaking aid from the game, not teamwork. It may be teammate triggered, but that's all. If you're worried about people THAT far away, you're not concentrating on objectives, and indeed this is another problem of 3D spotting, it helps encourage people to play Deathmatch even in Conquest, and people ignore the flags/objectives in favor of going hunting for kills. And I'm aware that it got changed from BC2, but it wasn't enough. All these problems still happen, the only thing that the changes stopped was that you can no longer blast people on the other side of a wall with an RPG since it disappears on the other side of a wall.

Audio spotting: Just no. This is why guns make sounds in the game, you should be required to use your ears to hear it. The fact that you can use a silencer to stop this does not make it right, all there is to it.

3D and audiospotting are two of the 3 biggest skill-removing/skill-equalizing features in the game, the third is positional killcam.

[fod]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Audio spotting: Just no. This is why guns make sounds in the game, you should be required to use your ears to hear it. The fact that you can use a silencer to stop this does not make it right, all there is to it.

and this is one of the main reasons unlocks are fubar - it basically requires you to have a silencer at all times

and autospotting is when you have the enemy in your crosshairs long enough it 3d spots them for all to see without even pressing q, i heard this has been toned down but im guessing its still in there

[TAA]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Disabling is ridiculous. It totally waters down vehicle play, overpowers infantry against vehicles and makes vehicle play frustrating. And I stick to infantry most of the time myself, and even I can see this.

3D spotting is a major problem. If enemies are that far away, you shouldn't need to go beyond the mini map. It's an artificial aid that does all the work. It's 4th wall breaking aid from the game, not teamwork. It may be teammate triggered, but that's all. If you're worried about people THAT far away, you're not concentrating on objectives, and indeed this is another problem of 3D spotting, it helps encourage people to play Deathmatch even in Conquest, and people ignore the flags/objectives in favor of going hunting for kills.

Audio spotting: Just no. This is why guns make sounds in the game, you should be required to use your ears to hear it. The fact that you can use a silencer to stop this does not make it right, all there is to it.

3D and audiospotting are two of the 3 biggest skill-removing/skill-equalizing features in the game, the third is positional killcam.

You are aware that the default settings for the game are chosen by developers to appeal to the vast majority of consumers right? It is part of developing a successful product.

Thankfully if you dont like default settings you do have the power to host servers and to change the settings to your own liking. Here are some settings you might like:

KILL CAM - off
SHOW ENEMY NAME TAGS - off
USE 3D SPOTTING - off
SHOW MINIMAP - off
REGENERATIVE HEALTH - off
3P VEHICLE CAM - off

Find servers that play the settings you like, encourage your clan to host those servers, host those servers yourself. Take charge of your gaming experience.

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Troika

I loved being an Engineer in PS1 and I did the exact same thing as Bugsy with the spitfires & explosives herding the enemy to killzones. I really miss spitfires and i hope you can upgrade your turrets to be autofiring so that i can set up a effective defensive grids as an engineer.

I find the "there is no front line" argument odd though, as it seems that this time around there really seems to be front lines in the game. Galaxies as spawn points are slow big targets which can be easily detected unlike AMS trucks. Galaxies require a strong defence to keep them alive. Objectives take longer time to hack when they are further away from the front line making the querilla hacking in enemy terroritory even more dfficult.

In PS1 lone Infiltrator could hack a terminal deep in enemy terroritory to spawn an AMS, drive it off the base and deploy it nearby. Cap a tower for a decoy and then proceed to cap the base. I don't see something like this being possible in PS2 as you just can't operate alone in enemy terroritory without hidden spawn point. Your op will be shut down pretty easily this time. You need a team to go with you, team big enough to defend the spawn (tower or Gal) and cap the base. This is an considerable improvement to combat the front line fragmentation problem.

There are no frontlines with infantry spawning infantry and flying AMS's. There are only randomly appearing enemies on your 12 oclock, 1 oclock, 2 oclock, 3 oclock, 4 oclock, 5 oclock, 6 oclock, 7 oclock, 8 oclock, 9 oclock, 10 oclock, 11 oclock.

[TAA]

Originally Posted by fod

and this is one of the main reasons unlocks are fubar - it basically requires you to have a silencer at all times

I never use a silencer in the game. It has a greater drop off in damage over range, which for most weapons and ranges will increase the # of bullets needed to kill a target. Yes I only play HC mode and yes even 1-2 bullets makes a huge difference.

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by IHateMMOs

Its not dumbed down, its modernized to appeal to a bigger crowd. Anyone who thinks its dumbed down obviously can't see the big "2" next to Planetside.

"DOOEEe I like to shoot things, DOOIEEEE."

It's dumbed down.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by TAA

You are aware that the default settings for the game are chosen by developers to appeal to the vast majority of consumers right? It is part of developing a successful product.

Thankfully if you dont like default settings you do have the power to host servers and to change the settings to your own liking. Here are some settings you might like:

KILL CAM - off
SHOW ENEMY NAME TAGS - off
USE 3D SPOTTING - off
SHOW MINIMAP - off
REGENERATIVE HEALTH - off
3P VEHICLE CAM - off

Find servers that play the settings you like, encourage your clan to host those servers, host those servers yourself. Take charge of your gaming experience.

I think you are not aware of the realities of this or else don't care, either way, this response is what a lot of people say who like BF3 and could care less if others don't. My clan DID use these settings and had to change it back. You see, if you customize your server, your server goes to "Custom" settings on the server browser and custom servers do not receive quick matches, as well as the fact that most players only search for either normal or hardcore servers. This works against custom servers unfairly.

Also, DICE has ZERO proof that disabling or any individual feature is popular with the vast majority of gamers. Sales figures simply cannot be used to justify an individual feature. If the game is fun enough in other ways to compensate people will buy it and play but that is in no way proof of the popularity of an individual feature.

DICE chose a positional killcam for their default settings but SOE, because SOE actually has been engaging with the consumers and finding out what they want, learned that they need to design a killcam that does not show the killer's position. That is the difference between knowing what people want and guessing based on sales.

[Buggsy]

Originally Posted by Eyeklops

LOL @ everybody raging over the obvious toll OP

That's what the trolls like you said on the PS1 forums when I told them that if they didn't delete OS from the game then the population would drop to almost nothing. Population dropped to almost nothing.

Originally Posted by somers

Too true... As much as I love the games I played as a kid I do know they are pretty bad, and when I take off my rose-tinted glasses called nostalgia I see that today's games are much better.

That's what trolls in the D3 forums are saying, "rose tinted glasses", even though there are still more players playing D2 than D3.

Originally Posted by ratfusion

Dunno what the OP was going on about, but spawn-on-squad is the fastest easiest solution to more teamplay in PUG squads. It works. It brings minor consequences to the table, but nothing that can't be solved without a few tank rounds.

Besides its not going to work inside a base (although I hope routers/teleport does).

I'm sure it works, I'm also sure giant floating battleships would work too. But it also turns the game into a COD "randomly shoot in any direction" game.

[NoDachi]

Originally Posted by Buggsy

Population dropped to almost nothing.

The way of all games I'm afraid.

Even one day, I will log on to Eve Online and only see 100 people in Jita.

EDIT: wow that's actually a creepy thought.