DEV reddit AMA- "ANT will most likely be the Sunderer with an ANT module" says WHO? - Page 2

Babyfark McGeez · 2013-12-06, 12:31 PM

The problem with piling all kinds of shit on the sunderer is (apart from it obviously being fucking lazy), it removes any information when dealing with a sunderer and turns it into a bloody guessing game.

Oh, there is a sundy. Is it an Ams? Is it an offensive variant? An Ant? Ammo supply? Who the fuck knows.
On offense that means i can't put priorites on them like i should be able to, and on defense it means i don't know what the friendly sundy is going to do. Will he need support for an Ant run? Will he need support to deploy? Will he go and hunt harassers? Fuck, who knows.

Same goes for turning the Gal into a Loadstar via cert bullshit, because c'mon, at this point you just know that is what's going to happen. Does it carry a vehicle? Is it just being used for a drop? Bah...

But it's probably all part of dumbing this shit down more because they assume console players are even more braindead consumer zombies than pc "casuals".

Badjuju · 2013-12-09, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by SgtMAD

this is the worst idea ever,the reality of having to do ant runs in PS was a nightmare,and this is from a guy that had plenty of members to do the actual runs and we did them ad naseum for almost a decade.

the idea that we are going to see sundys doing these runs on the maps we see now is going to "fun" for about a week then the bitching about losing bases because ppl are draining them is "unfair" will be all over the forums.

missing ant runs are NOT whats wrong with this game and to add them at this point is ridiculous.the idea that ppl are going to "pay" for the sundy to do the run is comical.

Most fights don't last long enough for that to be an issue. Bio labs really. The point is tho give objectives in the environment to fight for and provide better vehicle game play or just use of all the map. I think it has the potential to add some fun dynamics to the game but still to early to tell.

Whiteagle · 2013-12-06, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by SturmovikDrakon

I know it's easier for SOE to use the Sundy as the all-purpose-vehicle, but come on...

Originally Posted by HereticusXZ

To hell with the Sunderer, it does everything, it's just stupid now.

Make the ANT it's own vehicle. While your at it introduce the Loadstar!

Yeah, I've got to agree here, the Sunderer has enough features as it is...

ANTs need to be vulnerable, so they shouldn't carry two guns and a squad worth of guys...

Even if it IS just a reskinned Sundie, it should be it's own entity, a truck that MAYBE has room for a passenger and the rest is cargo space.
No Terminals, no AMS, no Guns, just a truck that handles a bit more like a Harasser than a Bus...

...Fuck, just reskin the HARASSER!
It's a JOY to drive, and I've used the damn front bumper for more kills then the weapons!

And yes, try to bring back the Loadstar, or at least an Aerial ANT...

typhaon · 2013-12-06, 02:04 PM

It's about resources and time.

Which is worrisome to say the least... especially when we see corners being cut on something that should be a foundational part of gameplay.

Carbon Copied · 2013-12-06, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by typhaon

It's about resources and time.

Which is worrisome to say the least... especially when we see corners being cut on something that should be a foundational part of gameplay.

As much as I hate the waiting game, I might be among the few who are happy to wait for "right" more so than "make do". If they have any pride in their work what so ever I'd like to think the former is applicable - but thus far... well the ball hasn't really left the SOE side of the court yet.

Overall though I know a few of the devs have mentioned they don't want to create a single vehicle (Malorn and T-Ray spring to mind at some point having broached that) to fulfill a single role - which to be fair I get that side of the argument however it's kind of moot if the AMS and ANT were on a shared chassis (independently equipped) and expand/establish the sunderer to be more of a troop mover/line smasher/line support vehicle. Yes.. specialization time and meaningful progression! That feeling of the "go to guy" when it comes to a certain task.

I'm not sure ANT runs would be as much of a pain as in PS1 as there's considerably more outpost cluttering the landscape (unfortunately) between main installations - I think they would have to re-evaluate the number of outposts or change some to non-contestable/linked (different topic) to bring the vehicle play (all round) into it - as it is bases are so convenient you could "sprint-hand-carry" the ores from source to power node and that's just dumb....

Rivenshield · 2013-12-06, 04:03 PM

Driving an ANT in the old days was dangerous and boring -- for the driver. Yet it added tremendously to the gameplay for everybody else, and incentivized teamplay amongst both defenders and attackers to make sure it arrived -- or didn't.

I frankly cannot imagine driving a slow, fat, slippery-footed Sunderer over the channelized terrain we have. The runs will take five-ten minutes, with even odds of driving off the road into a canyon to avoid enemy fire or getting blown up. It would make old ANT runs look like a dream. The new ANT is going to have to be faster and surer-footed, and it ought to fit into the back of a correctly-certed Galaxy.

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

Timealude · 2013-12-06, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

After they do the update to the Harasser, I highly doubt it will be viable as an energy transport. Being able to damage something like that with normal arms would be very easy to take them out and even worse so if a lib gets over it.

I want a new vehicle as well or hell if we really wanted to go all out...I want an actual trailer for the sundy and you can fill that up....but thats just a pipe dream.

Ghoest9 · 2013-12-06, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Driving an ANT in the old days was dangerous and boring -- for the driver. Yet it added tremendously to the gameplay for everybody else, and incentivized teamplay amongst both defenders and attackers to make sure it arrived -- or didn't.

I frankly cannot imagine driving a slow, fat, slippery-footed Sunderer over the channelized terrain we have. The runs will take five-ten minutes, with even odds of driving off the road into a canyon to avoid enemy fire or getting blown up. It would make old ANT runs look like a dream. The new ANT is going to have to be faster and surer-footed, and it ought to fit into the back of a correctly-certed Galaxy.

I vote for the Harasser. And I vote for the Gal to be able to carry light vehicles again. Anything else will be a monstrous blunder.

NOTHING was worse than being forced to drive an ANT for the good of your side even though you hated doing it.
It just made you want to log off and play a different game(usually DAoC back then) .

Blynd · 2013-12-07, 07:32 AM

The sundy is the jack of all trades make do at launch vehicle. We need to split it down and add more unique vehicles. If the ant is to be a module then it should be for the harresser/es buggys only and a new gal varient needs to be done to allow vehicle transports to some bases cause looik at skydock you can't drive a harresser into the base.

ringring · 2013-12-07, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Blynd

The sundy is the jack of all trades make do at launch vehicle. We need to split it down and add more unique vehicles. If the ant is to be a module then it should be for the harresser/es buggys only and a new gal varient needs to be done to allow vehicle transports to some bases cause looik at skydock you can't drive a harresser into the base.

Do we know that outposts will require refilling, perhaps it is just limited to main bases.

Even if it does include outposts look at all those on Esamir where you can't get a vehicle inside the walls - so the refill terminal will have to be located outside and if so the term at skydock could be down below.

SgtMAD · 2013-12-07, 03:49 PM

I just wonder who's bright idea it was to stop the loss of the playerbase by adding an ant to the game?

I am pretty damn sure the problems run much deeper than that.

Calista · 2013-12-07, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by SgtMAD

I just wonder who's bright idea it was to stop the loss of the playerbase by adding an ant to the game?

I am pretty damn sure the problems run much deeper than that.

For sure but I think this is an attempt to make resources actually matter. The middle of this game is ok, it's the beginning and end that are hurting pop retention. The new player experience is abysmal and there is no real end game whatsoever. Alerts try but just encourage empire hopping and are not very creative in their content.

Anyway, wonder if they could hold off until those new vehicles get released and proclaim them the ANT. Sundy just does enough already.

Blynd · 2013-12-08, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by ringring

Do we know that outposts will require refilling, perhaps it is just limited to main bases.

Even if it does include outposts look at all those on Esamir where you can't get a vehicle inside the walls - so the refill terminal will have to be located outside and if so the term at skydock could be down below.

I don't but if they were to put the refuling area outside of a base how would you stop a ton of armour just camping it till the base is drained ????

Also by making a dropship you allow for interesting base design in the future rather then the vanilla stuff we have now. Because you dint have to worry about can an ant get in it.

camycamera · 2013-12-07, 09:43 AM

i can understand making it a module for the sundy, but the sundy handles terribly, can carry 12 people, and packs a punch (basilisks). they either need to

1. make the module completely visually change the look of the sundy and the way it drives, and remove troop transport abilities and offensive abilities.

2. like someone else said, give it to the harasser, and do the same as above.

3. make an entirely new vehicle.

many are arguing 3, but making it specialised just for one thing is not really the way to go in this game.

however, if you were to have that new vehicle be able to specialise in many other instances.... maybe like a portable cloaker for vehicles? i don't know, but maybe the new vehicle could focus purely on defensive/objective-based instances, like the ANT and cloak thingy.

but for now, we'll just have to wait and see.

HereticusXZ · 2013-12-07, 10:00 AM

I -HATE- the idea of giving the ANT to a pre-existing vehicle. I want a new vehicle because the same old lineup is stale, Especially don't give it to a Sunderer because as is - with certed Basilisks you have no reason to pull any other vehicle!
It has AMS, Gate Shield Diffuser, Blockade Armor making it the most sponge like vehicle in the game (next to a Galaxy), It carries 12 players - right now we have no idea in-game how many crew a enemy vehicle, Could be solo, could be a full squad of enemy MAX, I don't know! Sunderer's are the end all do anything vehicle, Beyond cost of resources you have no reason to pull anything else when a army of Sunderer's kills everything!

But with all that put aside...

If you're going to give the ANT to any pre-existing vehicle, give it to the Galaxy! Galaxies need a reason to be kept alive and not just pull, taxi, and forget. What a waste of resources....

Giving a ANT to a Galaxy also gives players more incentive to tag along with pilots who have geared and enjoy the Galaxy Gunship role instead of gun and forget. Everyone wants to gun a Lib, MBT, or Harasser but do you know how frustrating it is to find gunners for a Galaxy in a Squad/Platoon/Outfit?