Gameplay: "We need a hacker!" - Give LA class the Rek

Geist · 2012-06-26, 11:40 PM

Why does everyone want the LA to have some kind of special ability to replace them dropping ammo? They have a jump pack and if I understand it right, they are also the only class that has access to C4 Charges, that's more than enough for one class.

The Degenatron · 2012-06-26, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Geist

Why does everyone want the LA to have some kind of special ability to replace them dropping ammo? They have a jump pack and if I understand it right, they are also the only class that has access to C4 Charges, that's more than enough for one class.

When did they give the C4 to the LAs? I thought the Infs had that.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-26, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

When did they give the C4 to the LAs? I thought the Infs had that.

Nah, I think infiltrators have gadgety type stuff, not explosives.

Femtobyte · 2012-06-26, 11:49 PM

I'm not saying that they should have access to it all at once, or that they should be able to do everything in the game. I actually don't even know that they DO need another ability, I haven't been able to play with the class at all -- no one has. But given the fact that the devs did give that ability to LAs makes me think that of all the classes LAs must have been one of the lighter classes ability-wise. And I personally am all for flexibility when it is an option.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-26, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Femtobyte

I'm not saying that they should have access to it all at once, or that they should be able to do everything in the game. I actually don't even know that they DO need another ability, I haven't been able to play with the class at all -- no one has. But given the fact that the devs did give that ability to LAs makes me think that of all the classes LAs must have been one of the lighter classes ability-wise. And I personally am all for flexibility when it is an option.

I agree and maybe there should be something else given to the LA. I just don't think it should be hacking. I don't know what it is, but not hacking.

EDIT: what about giving them the ability to paint targets for bombers, artillery, etc? give them a laze pointer like in PS1. I honestly think it would work better for LAs than infiltrators. Although, it could work for both...

Zolan · 2012-06-26, 11:57 PM

>give LA the REK

Infiltrator? Sure

Light Assault? Hell nah

Baneblade · 2012-06-27, 06:42 AM

Let LA place 'Marker Mines' to anything that isn't infantry. Make those 'Marker Mines' a requirement for OSing. And let it place a Laze Style waypoint for the squad/platoon. The waypoint will move with the MM.

The Degenatron · 2012-06-27, 08:15 AM

Baneblade: Scouting should be the work of infiltrators, That includes lasing targets and placing markers.

MCYRook: It's not so much about "selling the class" as it is about building more depth into the class system. I have always said hacking should be the realm of the dedicated few. Let me put it this way, one of these guys is a potential hacker, one is not:

Another example is in "Aliens". Here's your hacker and your squad leader - both are Light Assaults:

akiadan: The lack of an inventory system isn't a problem. The REK or Comm Link would replace their pistol sidearm.

Knotz & Rabaan: C4 actions like that are beter suited to infiltrators who are made to seperate from their squads and sneak up on people / tanks. Besides, HA and Maxes both already have great AV roles.

As to the arguement that you should not limit hacking to one class, I think that's simply rolling over to the rambo mentality. Taking a base should be a TEAM effort and the idea of any joe-schmo running in and flipping the flag goes against team-building. Here's an example:

"Alpha squad to platoon leader - we have secured the comm but our hacker is down!"
"Alright Alpha - hold that comm. I'm sending over a hacker now."
Platton leader to Bravo squad - Pull your hacker, medic, and heavy and circle around to Alpha's position - we need that comm terminal online asap"

That's just way cooler than imo.

MCYRook · 2012-06-27, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

As to the arguement that you should not limit hacking to one class, I think that's simply rolling over to the rambo mentality.

What that does is it makes having that one "hacker class" MANDATORY to have around to do anything that involves capping a point (i.e., the objective that the whole game is supposed to revolve around).

Talk about restrictive gameplay. That's not "way cool", that's just super annoying IMO.

When I imagine that in PS1 resecuring a base is not something that can be done by anyone (albeit inefficiently), I shudder. Capping a point is so basic and essential a task that it's really more of a nuisance than anything else to have it be done only by a select few.

Edit: Also, think about the gameplay ramifications for the LA himself in your cool scenario. He must not die, because if he's down (and his Medic is also), then no matter how good his teammates do, the objective is fucked. So the LA is required to hang back, take no risks, not make use of his cool jetpack either cause that might split him off the group, and basically do nothing until his buddies clear the point. Then he goes in to hack, that's his prime job. Now there's a role I know I don't want to take. :P

And another thing: It was pretty common in PS1 to "protect the AdvHacker" and create much of the scenario you like, just because having to hack the CC for 20 secs is way smoother than having to do it for 60 secs. But making the Hacker the only one that can do it at all? Balls to that. :P

Baneblade · 2012-06-27, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

Baneblade: Scouting should be the work of infiltrators, That includes lasing targets and placing markers.

Aren't you the one that is saying LA doesn't have enough to do and Infils have too much to do?

LA is the perfect scout. Mobility is key for scouting.

The Degenatron · 2012-06-27, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I agree and maybe there should be something else given to the LA. I just don't think it should be hacking. I don't know what it is, but not hacking.

EDIT: what about giving them the ability to paint targets for bombers, artillery, etc? give them a laze pointer like in PS1. I honestly think it would work better for LAs than infiltrators. Although, it could work for both...

How about a pair of pom-poms and a pleated skirt?

Ratstomper · 2012-06-27, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by The Degenatron

How about a pair of pom-poms and a pleated skirt?

I guess if that's what you're into.

The Degenatron · 2012-06-27, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I guess if that's what you're into.

The point I was making was that all they're really good for is cheerleaders now. A jetpack is cold comfort in the face of dual cyclers and heavy assault rifles.

Hacking terminals is NOT something you do alone. That's why it's a bad fit for infiltrators. Sabotaging vehicle pads - THAT's something suited for infiltrators. Sneaking up and planting C4 on the backs of tanks - THAT'S suitable for infiltrators. Sniping - THAT'S suitable for infiltrators.

Running WITH the squad - that's what LAs are supposed to do. An LA alone is in bad shape, jetpack or not. Hell, flying around in the air just makes you a bigger target.

LAs should hold the roles of what have always been lighter equipped soldiers: technicians and leaders.

You put the Rek and the Comm Link in the hands of an LA and now you've got a powerful class. A class that meassures up to Infiltrators, Engineers, Medics, and Heavies in "Utility on the Battlefield"; promoted from "trolling harrassers" to Squad Leaders and Flag Takers.

Explain to me how that's a bad thing.

Rabaan · 2012-06-27, 03:54 AM

If played right the LA would work in a guerilla combat situation, at least, that's how i see them being used as, so having the jet pack and C-4 would be best for them- jump in plant a bunch of c-4 where a convoy of tanks will be, blow them to smithereens and run-

TAA · 2012-07-05, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

EDIT: what about giving them the ability to paint targets for bombers, artillery, etc? give them a laze pointer like in PS1. I honestly think it would work better for LAs than infiltrators. Although, it could work for both...

I think this would be perfect.

IMO every class should have enough versatility to be useful in both open and closed areas.

HA - Rocket launcher and strong weapons make it useful against armor in the open or against troops in bases.
Engineer - turrets against troops, mines against tanks, ammo for everyone, repair support for all vehicles
Infiltrator - Sniper for open ground, sabotaging, etc.
Medic - useful wherever there are friendly troops.
LA - useful in areas where their jetpacks can vault them over obstacles. Not so useful on open ground.

Giving them the ability to select targets for artillery would give them an important role out in the field away from the bases.

Addendum: as an unrelated side thought, I think that if someone firing an artillery piece hits an area demarcated by a friendly unit and kills friendlies in the process, that the person doing the spotting should get the grief not the person firing the artillery.