Punkbuster? ohh no

[Malorn]

When they unveiled PS2 I recall Smed specifically saying they have a special third party solution for this.

"Punkbuster" isn't exactly a good answer to that.

[Rbstr]

Originally Posted by arclegger

You know what helps find cheaters? a kill cam *runs away and hides while maniacally laughing*

Haha, I love it.

Seriously, though, PB is better than nothing and there isn't a ton else that's automatic. It raises the cheater-bar at least. You think BF3 is bad when it's turned on? HAve you plaid an non-PB public server? It's disastrous.

[Coreldan]

We also have to remember that Forgelight is a brand new engine.

Most PB games use Unreal Engine, probably also known as the easiest to hack engine. Since they've built this from the ground up, there's a good chance they managed to build in a lot of deterrents for the hacler chets, but naturally they will still need some actual anti cheat software to detect and do the banning etc.

[MooK]

I didn't buy BF3 for the sole reasons of 1.) punkbuster and 2.) origin. Valve does it well, and I've never had VAC ruin my game experience. Using Punkbuster would be the most upsetting thing to hear about PlanetSide 2.

[Graywolves]

Originally Posted by VioletZero

That problem was so simple to fix though.

Not for me apparently. I was young at the time but I definatley recall going to respective sites and doing research, trying to figure out how to get myself unblocked.

[EVILoHOMER]

What BF3 does is automatically updates Punkbuster so you don't get kicked for having an older version, Planetside 2 needs to do the same every time you login.

[SuperMorto]

Is there no way they can give the power to the people? I know it may sound crazy, but the one force big enough to tackle them is us, the loyal players. But how would they implement that?

[MooK]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Not for me apparently. I was young at the time but I definatley recall going to respective sites and doing research, trying to figure out how to get myself unblocked.

Actually, in BF2/BF2142 there were endless possibilities as to why you were unable to play due to PB, and many of them were not simple fixes. I pretty much chucked my discs, simply because I would rather not play a game than deal with PB. At that point, I pretty much lost all hope for any game released with PB.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Graywolves

I remember Punkbuster kept kicking me in BF2142 for no particular reason... I seriously never knew why I wasn't allowed to play anymore, it just blocked me from every game.

Good point. PB always requires manual updating, otherwise it tends to behave strangely. But.

Here's one strange thing:
BF3 bans people straight away on PB protected servers.
Crysis 2 servers are filled with cheaters even under PB protection.

You may say otherwise but the amount of time I spent playing both games allows me to say it - PB's good. Only if the game is designed to be guarded by PB from head to toe.


Overall:
PB bans obvious cheaters on the go... - Pro
...but only if the game is designed to be used in synergy with it. - Solvable Con
PB requires manual clientside update to work properly. - Solvable Con
PB is easy to avoid with sophisticated hacks. - Con
PB doesn't require additional programs to be launched, process is automated. - Pro
PB can't ban hardware. - Con

2 Cons, 2 Solvable Cons, 2 Pros.

My specific opinion on the matter is that the only alternative that exists atm is Steam VAC (which is more efficient). But as it seems SOE would rather eat their pants than offer a contract to Valve to rebuild their game, so PB is our best choice. I mean "hidden hackers" are mostly an urban myth and even if there're some we better have hackers that hack for advantage, than hackers that hack to irritate people that keep roaming for days, having limitless ammo, no-reload, and no-cof hacks on boltdriver like at times of PS reserves and trials.

[Lonehunter]

Is it possible to uninstall Punkbuster?

I never could back in the day lol

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

Is it possible to uninstall Punkbuster?

I never could back in the day lol

PB is a separate program for each game, using the same .exe. Sounds strange but that's all there is to it.

[EVILoHOMER]

Originally Posted by SuperMorto

Is there no way they can give the power to the people? I know it may sound crazy, but the one force big enough to tackle them is us, the loyal players. But how would they implement that?

Problem is it creates more work for SOE CS to look into every case and fact is most people reported wont be hacking, people are sore losers.

Punkbuster is good, it works well for BF3 because they auto update it within battlelog or whatever. The problem most people have with Punkbuster is for most games you need to manually update it and most people don't know how, so it kicks them and they just quit and never bother playing again.

It's something SOE need to be on top of and something the beta will easily pick up.

[Coreldan]

VAC isn't any better if you ask me.

The only good thing about it is really how it'll ban you from all VAC servers if you get banned for cheating in one. But even this is pretty much going to dustbin cos during the time of F2P games, theres no reason for the people that are going to cheat not to make a fresh account just for the game. The people with hundreds of euros worth of Steam games arnt likely going to cheat in the first place.

Most VAC games are also community server based, with active adminstrators that own the server to kick who they think are cheaters (or just really good legit players), no rage hacker will manage for a long time. I come from APB myself that is an MMO-server kinda game where the above naturally doesnt work like that cos every GM needs to be hired by the devs. Planetside 2 will be a similar kinda game to APB in that sense.

But yeah, I dont personally think VAC is any better. Both are bypassed by sophisticated cheats. They are always one step behind, but its good cos they keep the cheat devs on toes and make their life hard too.

Funny fact: Brink was both PB and VAC secured and still had cheaters. I've also met cheaters in every VAC game I've played. So I really dont know how it's much better. Given, I may have to say that I've perhaps had a few technical problems less with VAC (like, PB ive had to update manually a few times, VAC not), but then again I've also played PB games probably a thousand hours more than VAC games

I doubt giving power to players will ever happen. As long as we're talking non-paid staff, there will always be conflicts. Even if nobody would abuse it, it would always cause unrest in the community and cause conflict of interest claims. At the very best they could assign people who's opinions "weight more" to the GMs. As in, RandomJoe reports me for cheating, a fairly low priority report cos Joe isnt really a veteran and probably hackusates every player that kills him, but then PowerBob who SOE selected to be some sorta community representative reports me, cos he has been singled out from the masses and is known to be a good member of the community who doesnt really do false reports, the GMs would now be more likely to check me out.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Coreldan

Cleared space

1st point: My personal experience with VAC is rather positive. I mean, there was once a moment in my life when my friend was asking on his knees to give him my old steam account to play some official CS 1.6. As a result the day after my account was VAC banned straight away. That's what I call efficiency.
TL;DR: VAC banned my account for cheating in a single day.

2nd point: VAC goes in conjunction with Steam and steam is the most popular PC games platform at this point. With it comes advertising.
TL;DR: VAC = Steam = Ads

3rd point: The popularity of Steam allows to track potential cheaters accounts quite easily. You won't find many players these days that will use steam solely for PlanetSide. Thus if there's a Super-Duper-Noob-Punisher appearing out of blue that has no games on his steam account than accusing side has all the appropriate rights to call for investigation on the possibility of him hacking.
TL;DR: Steam PS2-only accounts can give away a hacker.

4th point: Lastly I must say that I still think that there should be a system that would make the game B2P, probably by limiting free-to-play accounts territorial-wise (as in f2p can only play on one continent) with like 5$ price to upgrade your account for full access. I mean 5$ is something you would barely want to lose every time your steam account gets banned for cheating.
TL;DR: I'm still for semi-B2P model, where steam comes along very well.

[wasdie]

As long as the game doesn't do the majority of hit detection on the client side like BF3 does, it's not really going to be a big problem regardless of their anti-cheat software.