Does the shallow TTK shortchange the Depth this game could have? - Page 3

typhaon · 2013-01-17, 10:09 AM

I think Heavy Assault (if you use your shield) feels durable... and could maybe be used as a baseline for TTK for other classes... with HA getting even more of a durability buff.

As an FPS... there is nothing unusual about the TTK... it feels perfectly normal. As a new experience for MMO-only players or people that just haven't played competitive FPS (I have a friend in this situation) - it's a TOUGH learning curve.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-17, 10:19 AM

I think the ttk is great out of the box, and it only gets lower with certification points. I dont see a problem with the current system.

Forsaken One · 2013-01-17, 10:21 AM

The main reason I hate PS2s TTK is not that its short or long its that it can't decide what to be.

body shots to inf take 6-10 bullets to kill, but only 2-3 bullets to the head or something.

do you know how annoying that is? You know your enemys empire, you even learn what gun he has. but you can't put in before you engage him how many shots you can maybe take. you can die in less then a second or it can take 4 seconds of being shot to die.

Its reaaaaaallly freaking annoying. Ether make it realistic and take 1 to the head and 2-3 to the body or arcadey and take 5 to the head and 7 to the body or something.

Edit: Also it would be nice if the end of the splash from grenades and vehicle explosions did some kind of shell shock effect but you could live through it if you were at full health instead of insta gibbing people. Who again, take 10 bullets to the body to kill.

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-17, 10:54 AM

Between personal shields and sci fi helmets, you probably need to keep pumping rounds into their head until they go prone. I know shooting the legs of a guy is less efficient than bodyshots and thats even less than head shots. All I know is I like it.

Tatwi · 2013-01-17, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I personally hate the TTK in the game, it's nothing more than who sees who first. Of course, SOE didn't really have a choice. If what you're shooting doesn't die in 1 second, the ADHD crowd quits the game and whines about kills taking FOREVER.

I liked longer TTKs and the armor bar; it made fights interesting and required skill. Maybe I'm the only one, but strafe fights were fun.

So, yes; I believe the game could have a lot more depth when it comes to TTK.

I agree. When I am shooting at someone the *only* thing I actively think about is repeating the words, "aim for the head, aim for the head, aim for the..." over and over, because my instinct is to aim for the body. Who cares what class they are or what weapon they might have? It completely does not matter at all.

Now if you stretch out the distance to 300m and add in the fact that I am hidden somewhere watching the enemy and they don't know I am there, then yes indeed I have/can take the time to shoot the Medic first, where possible.

When it comes to fighting vehicles as infantry, it's totally different though. I will find the time to determine which target is the right combination of "most threatening" and "easiest to eliminate", provided there is cover to assess the situation from. Generally speaking, this sort "tactical thinking" isn't required or even possible against infantry, because by the time you've come up with a plan someone else has already killed them.

Infantry on infantry, where both sides have spawns nearby and neither are being camped, I don't really have an issue with the TTK. But when it 10 seconds to clear a location and the fight is over, that kind of makes for a boring time.

As an aside, it would be *neat* if there wasn't any healing/regeneration at all, respawns were at the warpgate only, and TTK was a minute of sustained fire or 10 head shots. Then a fight would be all about positions, flanking, covering, scouting, suppressing, and general situational awareness, because death would be a real pain in the ass and your life would have a large margin for error. It would make for long, tactical fights, but I am sure people would hate the shit out this concept for PS2. Still, it was fun to think about for a moment...

maradine · 2013-01-17, 12:59 PM

I think what you're describing is what Hawken/MWO/SB:HA all should have been.

Strategy · 2013-01-17, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I personally hate the TTK in the game, it's nothing more than who sees who first. Of course, SOE didn't really have a choice. If what you're shooting doesn't die in 1 second, the ADHD crowd quits the game and whines about kills taking FOREVER.

I liked longer TTKs and the armor bar; it made fights interesting and required skill. Maybe I'm the only one, but strafe fights were fun.

So, yes; I believe the game could have a lot more depth when it comes to TTK.

Strafe fights could be fun, but this game just wasn't created with that kind of gunplay in mind. Maybe if shooting wasn't built around ADS and the movement was faster there would be exciting gun fights. Honestly, I think this game would be 10x better if infantry movement and gunplay were a slowed version of quake's--but that's just a pipe dream and obviously never going to happen.

Increasing TTK in PS2 would just make infantry fighting terribly poor and even more boring.

Rbstr · 2013-01-17, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tatwi

As an aside, it would be *neat* if there wasn't any healing/regeneration at all, respawns were at the warpgate only, and TTK was a minute of sustained fire or 10 head shots. Then a fight would be all about positions, flanking, covering, scouting, suppressing, and general situational awareness, because death would be a real pain in the ass and your life would have a large margin for error. It would make for long, tactical fights, but I am sure people would hate the shit out this concept for PS2. Still, it was fun to think about for a moment...

What you've described is exactly EVE:Online. Except it doesn't become "tactical" (that word again, just stop).

And what it amounts to in action, when assaulting anything of importance, is huge groups of people that one person directs to shoot at a single enemy so it blows up instantly. That maximizes the reduction in enemy threat.
Any and all tactics essentially disappear to "next target" "try to warp before you explode" and "everyone run away" and it becomes a case of min/maxing your group's ability to instantly pop things that come within range. And also maximizing the size of your group...perhaps if the group is large enough you can insta-kill multiple things at once!

It's great for a game with economics where each thing you blow up is a representation of time invested. Not when you just pop up again all nice and no worse for wear.

Bags · 2013-01-17, 03:02 PM

Ps2 has uberskilled played sledge crusher ? Lol !

Sledgecrushr · 2013-01-17, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Ps2 has uberskilled played sledge crusher ? Lol !

Lol sarcasm doesnt become you. But yeah dude I regualrly watch sujieun on twitch tv and he is a relentless beast. His skill level is way beyond where I could ever hope to get. And he does it all almost entirely with a medic. So you can laugh like a schoolgirl or recognise that this is a skill based shooter.

sneeek · 2013-01-17, 03:47 PM

I think the TTKs are generally perfect as-is, except for the shotguns, which seem a little over-the-top even given their short effective range.

However, if the TTKs were lengthened, it would have to be done by making infantry guns fire more slowly, rather than making bullets individually weaker. The carbines and assault rifles that have only 30 rounds in a clip, which I assume is intentional for balance purposes, already need a certain amount of trigger discipline to avoid needing a reload before you're done killing a dude.

One of the things that I disliked the most about the original PlanetSide was having to dump most of a clip into a Rexoshield in order to kill him.

Baneblade · 2013-01-17, 04:40 PM

I think the TTK would be fine without headshots.

Rockit · 2013-01-17, 04:45 PM

The problem with low TTK is the impact to the cash shop. Why buy anything if I can kill you in 0.5 seconds? Shave it to 0.25? It just isn't enough difference to matter.

BlaxicanX · 2013-01-17, 05:10 PM

I've never really understood the comparisons to CoD.

I've raged so many times in this game because I get the drop on someone, empty 1/4th of my damn clip into them and they don't die. In fact, they turn around and casually murder me to death, and then I get the post-death snapshot of their health bar and they have like half their green bar left.

I don't know if it's because I play TR and their guns basically shoot silly-string, or because this is my first time playing a shooter on PC and I'm just bad at the game, or a combination of both, but the TTK in this game sure as hell isn't comparable to Call of Duty's, and yes it is frustrating, not because "I have ADHD", but because if I manage to outmaneuver you, I deserve a kill, and you deserve to die.

That's how I look at it, anyway.

Strategy · 2013-01-17, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

... but because if I manage to outmaneuver you, I deserve a kill, and you deserve to die.

That's how I look at it, anyway.

If your aiming was sufficient, and you outmaneuvered the other person, you'd win. Just out maneuvering another shouldn't get you anything but good position.