Driver/Gunners... NO!

[Arkanor]

Driving and gunning is easy, I would submit that I'm far more effective driving and gunning than I would be with a secondary gunner, or as a secondary gunner. I know where the tank needs to be, and I know the largest threat and how to shoot/dodge it better than a 2 man team is going to communicate.

Let's also forget the 2nd man doesn't just get a joke gun, given the map size that extra MG can be very effective, or substituted for something like an AA mount, something that tanks would greatly benefit from. 2 man crews will still be effective and preferable to 1, but the snap-reaction speed of not having to go outside one person's brain greatly benefits how the main gun works with the tank hull.

Battlefield series does it (very well I might add), World of Tanks does it. Video game tanks aren't rocket science, they're easy to drive on their own. Unless you're dealing with limited visibility, gearshifts, realistic terrain, or other limitations that do not exist in PS2 there's not much to do as a driver.

Though I would like the idea of a cooldown timer (5-20 sec) preventing you from switching a position, exiting/re-entering a vehicle after you've done that action. This cuts down on the TANK_SHOOT+MANPAT+TANK_SHOOT "free" shot.

[fod]

Originally Posted by Arkanor

Driving and gunning is easy, I would submit that I'm far more effective driving and gunning than I would be with a secondary gunner, or as a secondary gunner. I know where the tank needs to be, and I know the largest threat and how to shoot/dodge it better than a 2 man team is going to communicate.

Battlefield series does it (very well I might add), World of Tanks does it. Video game tanks aren't rocket science, they're easy to drive on their own. Unless you're dealing with limited visibility, gearshifts, realistic terrain, or other limitations that do not exist in PS2 there's not much to do as a driver.

Though I would like the idea of a cooldown timer (5-20 sec) preventing you from switching a position, exiting/re-entering a vehicle after you've done that action. This cuts down on the TANK_SHOOT+MANPAT+TANK_SHOOT "free" shot.

i dont think anyone has said it is hard - we just want the OPTION to have someone gun for us if we want because some of us prefer it this way

[Enzo]

I'm all for having the option. Then I'll get 2 kills instead of 1 when I blow them up.

[KaB]

For those who invited us to play ArmA and stop whining because you want to have some fun in a funny game, well I'll invite you to go to play one of the innumerable funny games we already have and leave PS2 the way it should be, that's to mean Unique.

[Arkanor]

Originally Posted by fod

i dont think anyone has said it is hard - we just want the OPTION to have someone gun for us if we want because some of us prefer it this way

Not everyone, some want to force it. I'm fine with having the option to surrender main gun control to a dedicated gunner, I just don't want it forced on me.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

1234

This is a classic example of seeing things so differently that 2 people will just have to agree to disagree.
-Where you see buildings that are easily spamable, I see terrain where infantry can pop out of nowhere and pepper vehicles with AV, and then disappear just as quickly.
-Where I see cleverly designed walls that provide cover, you see an AOE death trap.
-Where you see a tank that doesn't need to re-equip, I see a tank with limited ammo and an auto repair that only matters when you are out of combat for a very very long time.
-You focus on the word "secondary", and I focus on the word "weapon".
-Where you see a problem with a less clear deliniation between essentially different games of Planetside Outdoors (pre-taking CY) and Planetside Indoors (post-taking CY), I see much more organic and better flowing gameplay.

We've both seen the same footage, and we've both played Planetside, and yet we reach different impressions. I say "impressions" instead of "conclusions" because neither of us have actually played PS2....yet. Maybe I'm using rose colored glasses for PS2, or maybe you're using ones for PS1, or maybe a combination of both.

Originally Posted by Soothsayer

But... But.. But... if there is the ability to have it either way (driver is primary gunner or gunner is primary gunner what is the problem there? This is what has been said.

Yeah. I've thought that was a great middle ground solution. I've even asked/lobbied Higby about it directly over twitter and his response was essentially "maybe". I think the only problem with it is how to deal with the Magrider without completely redesigning it. I think making the Mag main gun the turret, and giving control of it to the driver along with its ability to strafe, etc. will make it pretty overpowered, but that's just an opinion since I have no data to back that up.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I see terrain where infantry can pop out of nowhere and pepper vehicles with AV, and then disappear just as quickly.

Here's the problem, the driver can just hop out and be on an even footing with those Infantry. The best case for Infantry is an even fight, the worst case for any vehicle driver is an even fight.

It's exactly the same scenario from PS1 'super soliders' except it's now, drive a MBT solo, be effective against everything in the field, get to a base, hop out and kill infantry inside, WITHOUT SWAPPING LOADOUTS.

[Littleman]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Here's the problem, the driver can just hop out and be on an even footing with those Infantry. The best case for Infantry is an even fight, the worst case for any vehicle driver is an even fight.

It's exactly the same scenario from PS1 'super soliders' except it's now, drive a MBT solo, be effective against everything in the field, get to a base, hop out and kill infantry inside, WITHOUT SWAPPING LOADOUTS.

Not quite. I can hop out, but as an HA, I can't heal myself unless the enemy leaves me alone for a while. Hop out as a medic, or any other class really, I'm lacking the direct killing power needed indoors. If one guy can stomp all over the defense, there are bigger problems with the defense than the tank driver jumping out and being solo viable.

Don't act like agile pilots with HA weren't a reality in the first game.

This is going to be a new expectation in PS2: the pilot is the final obstacle to defeating the tank/aircraft. Fortunately, you can A: pull the same stunt and B: one needs to commit a few moments to exiting the craft, as they can't just hit G and immediately they're outside the tank. If they begin evacuating too late, they get barbecued. There are certs to reduce that time requirement however.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

Here's the problem, the driver can just hop out and be on an even footing with those Infantry. The best case for Infantry is an even fight, the worst case for any vehicle driver is an even fight.

It's exactly the same scenario from PS1 'super soliders' except it's now, drive a MBT solo, be effective against everything in the field, get to a base, hop out and kill infantry inside, WITHOUT SWAPPING LOADOUTS.

You're looking at it in a vacuum though. Your enemy will have vehicles too. Also, the infantry AV weapons are obviously different than they were in PS1. You've got to keep that in mind before you start spouting off about how vehicles can just waddle up to any capture point no problem.

Also, Agile armor is pretty damn effective in PS1, even after the surgile nerf. And unless you can heal and repair your armor yourself (like the PS1 "super soldiers" you refer to) then you are probably going to have a hard time being rambo and clear out bases by yourself.

Basically, you are complaining about a balance issue that hasn't even arisen yet. Now, when you get in beta here soon, you can try out your theory, but until there actually IS a balance problem, you just sound like another Chicken Little to me.

[Memeotis]

I didn't bother reading through all of the comments, so I don't know if this has already been mentioned. What you're suggesting is indeed possible for both the Vanguard and the Prowler, but one of the trade-offs of a Magrider is that the turret is fixed in place, which means the driver would always control the horizontal aiming.

Regardless I'm not in favor of this idea. Like someone mentioned, this is an assault vehicle, not a transport vehicle. Working together with your gunner will still make you a lot more powerful than if you were to go solo. Teamwork will still be relevant.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by Raymac

You just sound like another Chicken Little to me.

It's gonna be fun farming idiots like you in PS2.

It's comedic when I try and point out glaring balance issues and get shouted down for it, great thing is, I'm gonna be the one exploiting them fully, farming grunts/vehicles in a Scythe, bailing on some hapless AA MAX as HA, killing him and moving inside and mowing down the Infantry there.

I might even deign to drive a solo Magrider every once in a while, killing infantry and vehicles, hopping out every so often to kill someone hiding behind a rock formation, hopping back in and carrying on the kill whoring.

Pity really, I'd hoped to be able to footzerg with AV but it's pretty obvious that's not going to be fun or effective.

Oh and btw, you can cert/implant into health regen.

[Littleman]

Originally Posted by Bobby Shaftoe

It's gonna be fun farming idiots like you in PS2.

It's comedic when I try and point out glaring balance issues and get shouted down for it, great thing is, I'm gonna be the one exploiting them fully, farming grunts/vehicles in a Scythe, bailing on some hapless AA MAX as HA, killing him and moving inside and mowing down the Infantry there.

I might even deign to drive a solo Magrider every once in a while, killing infantry and vehicles, hopping out every so often to kill someone hiding behind a rock formation, hopping back in and carrying on the kill whoring.

Pity really, I'd hoped to be able to footzerg with AV but it's pretty obvious that's not going to be fun or effective.

Oh and btw, you can cert/implant into health regen.

Bark more, please.

We don't know what implants will be available. As for certs, unless Nanite Mesh Generator is the heal cert, I haven't seen anything that says where HA can speed up their self-heal process. You can bring medkits however, for whatever they're worth.

[Ant001]

It's a modern fps not 10 yrs old ps1.
Modern fps's allow the driver to shoot and drive carrying one passenger as a secondery gunner. This is not old ps its ps2 and they want to attract many more players than they had in ps1.
They have said many times they want to attract players from bf and cod. These players expect to be able to gun and drive.
I don't like it, but I sure understand it.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Originally Posted by Littleman

Bark more, please.

We don't know what implants will be available. As for certs, unless Nanite Mesh Generator is the heal cert, I haven't seen anything that says where HA can speed up their self-heal process. You can bring medkits however, for whatever they're worth.

Oh a little person, hello.

I'm a BR40, I'm seeing parallels with what's being proposed for PS2 and gameplay/mechanics from PS1 which were major problems, I'm guessing you're not BR40 and so probably don't know what you're talking about.

Have fun getting farmed in PS2, I'd prefer a more balanced approach for PS2 than PS1, since I actually did all that farming/whoring and know that I ruined many a game session for scores of other players simply by being in a mozzie for example. I just want a better game for EVERYONE... not just the kill whores who will exploit every imbalance no matter how small or large.

I mean really... you guys are balking at having the most powerful ground vehicles requiring TWO PEOPLE... in an MMOFPS... to be effective. Not only that, you can choose your favourite indoor class and drive all the way from your spawn point to the target and not rely ON ANYONE ELSE.

You people man, you people.

[Shadowrath]

I wish this didn't discourage teamwork