Vehicles will/should be rare.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Klockan

From the other threads I have read it seems like people believe that everyone will be able to get a tank or plane at will and that the resources will only limit abuses.

Have anyone of you guys played battlefield 2, 2142 or 3? Then you would know that on each battlefield map there are 1-6 combat vehicles on each side while there are 32 players on each side. That means at most there is 1 vehicle per 5 players at any one time and then vehicles respawns slower than infantry. Now as you all probably know PS2 have drawn a lot of inspiration from the battlefield series which would mean that we would have roughly as rare vehicles.

No, this isn't a problem. The battlefield series thrived on having a low vehicle count. There are tanks and planes, but ~80-90% of the manpower is on foot. The only ones who will whine about that are stuck up PS1 vets who wants to drive around in a tank or a plane 24/7.

I am genuinely surprised you didn't get flooded by hate posts for this. You have the generally mature PS community to thank for that one.

So here is how it would play out:
1 - you make MBTs cost a lot
2 - not many people will be able to afford MBTs
3 - those who can affor MBTs will be blown up by AV infantry
4 - nobody will ever use MBTs again
5 - the end

There is a fine balance between the number of vehicles on the field and the number of AV grunts. Since it is free to spawn as AV grunt, but costs resources to get a tank, the few that would be spawned would end up dead in a matter of seconds.

You need to think this through a bit more.

Luckily it seams the game devs did just that and added a 15 minute cooldown on the tanks. 5 minutes if you get a cert for it (don't know how much that would cost you).

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Figment

Actually PS1 vets who want driver + gunner instead of driver = gunner are suggesting to reduce the potential heavy vehicle numbers by half because you can't use the larger vehicles solo.

This makes it easier for infantry to compete and more viable relative to the lighter solo units, while the heavier units are less numerous and therefore don't get as much leverage over weaker units either.

So.... uhm... Yeah. You were saying?

>_>

This doesn't have to do with the driver + gunner debate, this has to do with how much infantry we will have on the field. Driver + gunner tanks will reduce the amount of infantry since it becomes cheaper per person in the tank, but other than that this is a separate topic.

Originally Posted by Stardouser

You were speaking as if Flashes were the answer to every long walk. Defenders don't have long walks usually, but attackers do. Now, if it's a long walk from a tower or Galaxy back to the fight, and you have to spawn so much further away at a base to spawn a Flash that it will take you longer to drive than it would have to walk, how does that help anything?

Please tell me then how this is relevant to the topic? With infinite/near infinite resources the fastest and safest way would be to spawn at your base, spawn an aircav and then drop in the middle of their base in 10-15 seconds depending on if your base is 2 or 3 hexes away anyway. But in general if you can't spawn a vehicle it doesn't have to do with this topic since this topic is only about how much vehicles should be able to be spawned.

Originally Posted by Gorgos

I'm struggling to see the problem here to be honest. Vehicles do make gameplay a whole lot more interesting in my opinion. If you look at how military works in real life you'll notice that pure infantry doesn't really exist at all anymore, most of the troops are attached to some kind of vehicle, being dropped from the air or mechanized infantry on the ground.

You don't want people to use a tank to run up to a door just to jump out as a fully fledged infantry unit? If they keep suiciding tanks to get through a door that person will find himself without any resources pretty fast and anything not a MBT wont have the armor to drive up to a door in the courtyard in a base under siege.

Every new day in PS2 at the start of a servers prime-time vehicles wont be rare, but as the day progresses you'll probably see less and less anyway.

In the modern world we mostly use transports, IE galaxies and sunderers. But each galaxy and sunderer can hold 12 people making them really cheap per person, so there is no problem having them for each set of 12 persons.

Originally Posted by Azren

I am genuinely surprised you didn't get flooded by hate posts for this. You have the generally mature PS community to thank for that one.

So here is how it would play out:
1 - you make MBTs cost a lot
2 - not many people will be able to afford MBTs
3 - those who can affor MBTs will be blown up by AV infantry
4 - nobody will ever use MBTs again
5 - the end

Your logic fails, since what other than tanks would they spawn with the resources? Air uses a different resource. As long as the tank does better than an infantry people will spawn tanks since that is what they can do with the resource. However they can't spawn a tank all the time.

[Gorgos]

Originally Posted by Klockan

Please tell me then how this is relevant to the topic? With infinite/near infinite resources the fastest and safest way would be to spawn at your base, spawn an aircav and then drop in the middle of their base in 10-15 seconds depending on if your base is 2 or 3 hexes away.

You're just being silly tbh. So what if it's the fastest and safest? You'll still be spending resources on doing it and unless you're a light assault with jetpack you'll have to upgrade your vehicle to be able to do that anyway. And what is the problem with this exactly?

There'll just be one guy on a roof in a fight with hundreds of people.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Klockan

Please tell me then how this is relevant to the topic? With infinite/near infinite resources the fastest and safest way would be to spawn at your base, spawn an aircav and then drop in the middle of their base in 10-15 seconds depending on if your base is 2 or 3 hexes away.

So if you die during a base assault, and your Galaxy is parked 750 meters away for safety and due to sphere of influence, you're going to respawn way back at your main base 2-3 kilometers away and pull an aircav every time? AND you think it's only going to take 10-15 seconds to do that?

BTW, I am not arguing for unlimited resources. And I'm only responding to your response to the other guy. And this is about your comment about FLASH, not aircav. Flashes would be affordable even if resources were limited.

[ruskyandrei]

No thanks, I want to see large tank battles, while dozens of aircraft are dogfighting in the air above and infantry is moving around in cover.

I don't want to see 1-2 tanks that some random dude is picking off by divebombing his jet into while the rest of the people are quickscoping eachother off the map.

Planetside is a game where vehicles are not, and should not, be rare. (Unless them being rare is a result of a bad use of resources or terrain limitations)

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Gorgos

You're just being silly tbh. So what if it's the fastest and safest? You'll still be spending resources on doing it and unless you're a light assault with jetpack you'll have to upgrade your vehicle to be able to do that anyway. And what is the problem with this exactly?

There'll just be one guy on a roof in a fight with hundreds of people.

That was just an example. Also you don't need a cert to jump out on the roof, you can just fly very low and then jump out. Also of course you don't jump out at a place if you don't got backup there, the point is that it would be better to just spawn aircav and travel than to spawn at a proxy galaxy. The galaxy can't be deployed at the frontline or it would be destroyed already and you have more flexibility with where you want to go with an aircav. The main point however is that as long as you can't spawn vehicles anyway what do it have to do with this topic? Also in that situation, how do you assault that base with infantry when all enemies have infinite vehicles since they are in their own base?

Originally Posted by Stardouser

So if you die during a base assault, and your Galaxy is parked 750 meters away for safety and due to sphere of influence, you're going to respawn way back at your main base 2-3 kilometers away and pull an aircav every time? AND you think it's only going to take 10-15 seconds to do that?

BTW, I am not arguing for unlimited resources. And I'm only responding to your response to the other guy.

Bases are at most 1.5 kilometers from each other and aircav travels 100 meters per second so it takes at most 15 seconds to travel there with one.

[morf]

OP is way off here. First, if someone wants to be a dedicated vehicle user, and spends their certs to specialize in it, they had better be able to pull those vehicles. I think the resource cost for pulling a stock vehicle will be very low if not free, then customization will drive up the price significantly.

Secondly, there are plenty of infantry-only areas. With bases that are roughly 4 times the size of CoD levels, and T-Ray saying early on that roughly 50% of the game is indoors, there's plenty of space.

Last but not least, anyone who played PS1 knows that while an initial push has a lot of vehicles, as those get blowed up, the vehicle crush turns into a footzerg because it's more effective to respawn at the AMS/Galaxy in 20 seconds than to take 5-10 mins to reorganize back at a friendly base, pull another vehicle, fill it, and drive back to the battle. And on defense, the first thing to drop is generally your vehicle term, so it's all foot action from there.

Vehicles will be limited by the battlefield situation. Making them artificially rare would dilute the liberty to play any role you want - one of the hallmarks of PS.

[PredatorFour]

Originally Posted by Klockan

From the other threads I have read it seems like people believe that everyone will be able to get a tank or plane at will and that the resources will only limit abuses.

Have anyone of you guys played battlefield 2, 2142 or 3? Then you would know that on each battlefield map there are 1-6 combat vehicles on each side while there are 32 players on each side. That means at most there is 1 vehicle per 5 players at any one time and then vehicles respawns slower than infantry. Now as you all probably know PS2 have drawn a lot of inspiration from the battlefield series which would mean that we would have roughly as rare vehicles.

No, this isn't a problem. The battlefield series thrived on having a low vehicle count. There are tanks and planes, but ~80-90% of the manpower is on foot. The only ones who will whine about that are stuck up PS1 vets who wants to drive around in a tank or a plane 24/7.

For a start this isnt battlefield its planetside , completely different. Vehicles wont be rare as you can buy them with real money or capture resources to get them and everyone has access to these vehicles. Its not like we are defending leza with 40 vs and we only got a choice of 6 tanks to find/gun in the area. Sure PS 2 has drawn alot of inspiration from bf series but it doesnt mean its going to be the same gameplay mechanics.

[Gorgos]

Originally Posted by Klockan

That was just an example. Also you don't need a cert to jump out on the roof, you can just fly very low and then jump out. Also of course you don't jump out at a place if you don't got backup there, the point is that it would be better to just spawn aircav and travel than to spawn at a proxy galaxy. The galaxy can't be deployed at the frontline or it would be destroyed already and you have more flexibility with where you want to go with an aircav. The main point however is that as long as you can't spawn vehicles anyway what do it have to do with this topic? Also in that situation, how do you assault that base with infantry when all enemies have infinite vehicles since they are in their own base?

I'm not really sure as to why I am still replying to this but here goes:
So if you can fly over the roof of whatever you want to land on and just simply walk out, wouldn't that mean that this place is empty of enemies? Because I am pretty sure they'd blow you up long before you set foot on said surface.

Or why not support your troops with said air cav instead of jumping out of it in the first place, cause in all of your examples AA doesn't seem to be an issue.

And how is the galaxy either not deployed or destroyed in the example? Doesn't sound very logical to me.

And there is no such thing as infinite vehicles in this game.

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by morf

OP is way off here. First, if someone wants to be a dedicated vehicle user, and spends their certs to specialize in it, they had better be able to pull those vehicles. I think the resource cost for pulling a stock vehicle will be very low if not free, then customization will drive up the price significantly.

Why should you be able to pull as many vehicles you want just because you can cert in it? Also from what we know modding stuff doesn't alter its price at all.

Originally Posted by morf

Last but not least, anyone who played PS1 knows that while an initial push has a lot of vehicles, as those get blowed up, the vehicle crush turns into a footzerg because it's more effective to respawn at the AMS/Galaxy in 20 seconds than to take 5-10 mins to reorganize back at a friendly base, pull another vehicle, fill it, and drive back to the battle. And on defense, the first thing to drop is generally your vehicle term, so it's all foot action from there.

Can you tell me how this wouldn't translate to a huge defenders advantage in PS2? I mean, in PS2 you don't sacrifice infantry combat capabilities to be able to drive, so the galaxy spawner would get easily overrun and blown to pieces by tanks and air when all you got to defend it is infantry.

Originally Posted by morf

Secondly, there are plenty of infantry-only areas. With bases that are roughly 4 times the size of CoD levels, and T-Ray saying early on that roughly 50% of the game is indoors, there's plenty of space.

But what do infantry only areas have to do with vehicles? If infantry is nonexistent outside of these areas you just have two different games, an infantry game and a vehicle game.

Originally Posted by morf

Vehicles will be limited by the battlefield situation. Making them artificially rare would dilute the liberty to play any role you want - one of the hallmarks of PS.

You can still play any role you want, just not all the time. Many soldiers dream about being fighter pilots but most soldiers aren't fighter pilots or even tank drivers, most soldiers are grunts.

Originally Posted by Gorgos

And there is no such thing as infinite vehicles in this game.

Doesn't need to be infinite, just near infinite, if you can spawn enough aircav to satisfy a dedicated aircav driver this would happen.

Originally Posted by Gorgos

I'm not really sure as to why I am still replying to this but here goes:
So if you can fly over the roof of whatever you want to land on and just simply walk out, wouldn't that mean that this place is empty of enemies? Because I am pretty sure they'd blow you up long before you set foot on said surface.

Just forget about it, it was just an example of how silly it becomes. The galaxy will most likely not be deployed closer than 10-15 seconds to the action since then it would easily get destroyed. Also probably the aircav would just fly there and act as an aircav till the infantry is needed and then jump out at the position where it would be best to be.

[Marinealver]

Originally Posted by Azren

So here is how it would play out:
1 - you make MBTs cost a lot
2 - not many people will be able to afford MBTs
3 - those who can affor MBTs will be blown up by AV infantry
4 - nobody will ever use MBTs again
5 - the end.

But it will cost nothing for a LIGHT ASSAULT ZERG RUSH.

Forget the flashs everyone grab a jetpack and sky hop you way to the base.

[Azren]

Originally Posted by Klockan

Your logic fails, since what other than tanks would they spawn with the resources? Air uses a different resource. As long as the tank does better than an infantry people will spawn tanks since that is what they can do with the resource. However they can't spawn a tank all the time.

hahaha, like hell it does

You have no idea what resource will be used for what or how hard/easy they are to get. Or if they can be converted, ect.

Talk about logic when you don't even know the basics, lol

Besides, what I wrote is not resource related. I will try to rephase it so you can understand:

few tanks die fast to many AV infantry

if you know you will die fast, because there are only a few tanks you will not pull one

end of story

[Klockan]

Originally Posted by Azren

Luckily it seams the game devs did just that and added a 15 minute cooldown on the tanks. 5 minutes if you get a cert for it (don't know how much that would cost you).

By the way, this means that I am right and have already won according to the devs. If you can run out of resources by spawning a tank every 15 minutes it means that the resource system is really limiting (2 vehicles share each resource so with that long cooldown it would mean that you would have to wait at least 8 minutes for the resources for a vehicle). If you can't run out of resources by spawning the vehicles as often as possible then it means that the resource system is worthless and they wouldn't have included it anyway.

Originally Posted by Azren

hahaha, like hell it does

You have no idea what resource will be used for what or how hard/easy they are to get. Or if they can be converted, ect.

Talk about logic when you don't even know the basics, lol

Besides, what I wrote is not resource related. I will try to rephase it so you can understand:

few tanks die fast to many AV infantry

if you know you will die fast, because there are only a few tanks you will not pull one

end of story

If there are few tanks there will also be comparably fewer AV infantry since there are fewer targets to shoot. Also it doesn't make sense to convert resources, now you are assuming things. Most likely you can't convert resources since that would make them less meaningful.

[Pyreal]

Rare vehicles? No. I want to blow stuff up in my shiny-purple hovertank 24/7.

[ThermalReaper]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

Rare vehicles? No. I want to blow stuff up in my shiny-purple hovertank 24/7.

Agreed, if I want to be a dedicated pilot, then that's what I'm going to do. I don't want your stupid rifles.