Gameplay: Dedicated driver certification for MBT

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Having three guys in a tank manning all stations means that tank has more efficiency than a gunnerdriver and gunner tank. The same amount of duties are being split among 3 people instead of two. That's an advantage. It's offset by the fact that if you want 3 guys in your vehicle focused on one thing each, then if the tank blows up, they all may die. That's a fair tradeoff.

Only if it has equal power to THREE people in other roles.

You keep comparing TO ONE VEHICLE. Stop acting so obstinate. You heard if 500 times and you keep refusing to balance 3 vs 3, but continuously whine that 1 vs 2 is in favour of 2 and 1 vs 3 in favour of 3.

OF COURSE IT IS. We never argued it wasn't. We're argueing about OTHER SCENARIOS YOU REFUSE TO ADMIT EXIST AND REFUSE TO BALANCE FOR. Like I said many times before, you're a horrible balancer due to your shortsightedness and incapacity and even refusal to draft various scenarios.

But 2 vs 2 should be in favour of the two in one unit.

And 3 vs 3 as well.

Because both times those two and three in one unit have less separate units and thus less other advantages.


How often do we need to tell you that before you realise you're the one who can't think out of ONE SINGLE SCENARIO, which is one unit (with x players) vs one of the SAME unit (with y players)?

While ignoring x units (with one player) vs one unit (of x players)

I'm comparing the variants of the one vehicle, not against anything else. If we're talking an optional sidegrade to separate gunners and drivers, then the optional sidegrade shouldn't have substantial benefits over the original.

Manpower "sidegrades" aren't the same as changing the gun. It's a sidegrade that REMOVES ANOTHER UNIT FROM THE FIELD.

It's completely non-comparable!

You're just unwilling to see this.

I'm not reading the rest of your BS wall of text. Learn to keep up with the discussion and then maybe I'll take you seriously.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're the one not keeping up Ratstomper. You're really shortsighted about what a sidegrade is (changing unit stats for the individual player) and what manpower balance is (changing unit stats for a group of players).

[Ratstomper]

Originally Posted by Figment

Only if it has equal power to THREE people in other roles.

I don't think you understand what different roles means. It's not just about 3 guys can do this, so all 3-manned vehicles should be able to do the exact same amount of good (how the hell do you expect to figure that out?). If you have an enemy line that is holding against your footzerg, that's exactly when you roll tanks. The purpose of the vehicles is to allow soldiers to do what they cannot normally.

If putting 9 guys into three tanks to flank an enemy hardpoint works, then it's worth losing those 9 guys and 3 tanks because you've actually gained ground. You're saying all the value in the game comes from having everything balanced to an absolutely OCD level. I'm saying you're missing the point of a war simulator and that type of balance is impossible due to so many roles in the game. You aren't taking all factors into account.

You keep comparing TO ONE VEHICLE. Stop acting so obstinate. You heard if 500 times and you keep refusing to balance 3 vs 3, but continuously whine that 1 vs 2 is in favour of 2 and 1 vs 3 in favour of 3.

WTF are you talking about? You're the one who is doing this, not me. I made that point in the other thread (and it was right).

OF COURSE IT IS. We never argued it wasn't. We're argueing about OTHER SCENARIOS YOU REFUSE TO ADMIT EXIST AND REFUSE TO BALANCE FOR.

Like what? How many goddamn lightnings it takes to screw in a lightbulb? How often are your little hypotheticals in a vacuum going to actually happen? Effectively never. How many times are things like uneven numbers, positioning and other outside factors going to throw a monkey wrench in that math? I'm saying those "other scenarios" are nearly useless to even talk about due to the sheer numbers of factors involved.

Even if it DID serve a purpose, It's not the purpose of this thread. The purpose of this thread is to find out a way to make balanced and tenable, 3-manned variants of the MBTs so that some people can play the way they find most fun. You HAVE to get the idea working before you start worrying about anything else.

Like I said many times before, you're a horrible balancer due to your shortsightedness and incapacity and even refusal to draft various scenarios.

See above regarding scenarios.

But 2 vs 2 should be in favour of the two in one unit.

And 3 vs 3 as well.

Because both times those two and three in one unit have less separate units and thus less other advantages.

What exactly are you talking about here? You have given NO context for what you're trying to say. This is why you're so difficult to decipher.

Did we not agree on the 2v2 and 3v3 thing? An MBT with 2 players inside will be vastly superior to 2 single-manned MBTs. Can two single-manned MBTs take out a single 2-manned MBT? Probably, but this isn't Tankside and those single manned MBTs are less effective overall. Thats what the whole other thread was about, but not this one. So, lets stay on topic, huh?

How often do we need to tell you that before you realise you're the one who can't think out of ONE SINGLE SCENARIO, which is one unit (with x players) vs one of the SAME unit (with y players)?

While ignoring x units (with one player) vs one unit (of x players)

That's the purpose of the thread, asshole. How about we get our ducks in a row before we start balancing the tank we haven't even hammered out how to change for people yet. You can't make one variant of the tank have substantial advantage over the other variant. If you do that, you may as well just make a different tank for people.

Manpower "sidegrades" aren't the same as changing the gun. It's a sidegrade that REMOVES ANOTHER UNIT FROM THE FIELD.

It's completely non-comparable!

You're just unwilling to see this.

For the purpose of making that tank more efficient and letting people play the way they want to. I fail to see how that's an unfair trade.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You're the one not keeping up Ratstomper. You're really shortsighted about what a sidegrade is (changing unit stats for the individual player) and what manpower balance is (changing unit stats for a group of players).

Really? Because it sounds like you're just babbling and not really saying anything. Maybe you ARE saying something, but I have a hard time trying to figure out what you mean by your vague references, non-sequiturs and algebra in a vacuum...