PS2 requires level grind?

Shadows · 2012-07-18, 12:25 PM

Maybe this information has been posted somewhere else already, and I just missed it in my search? If not:

How much do we know about the equipment specialization? Say i spend X amount of points/currency/whatever to heavily upgrade a weapon, then decide I don't like it. I stop using it and start using something else instead. If i choose to, can i drop all the upgrades on the previous weapon and use all those points to upgrade my new weapon? Sort of like how in ps1 you'd get a refund on your cert points when you drop a vehicle or weapon, and can then use those points to pick up something else. Or will PS2 require everyone to start fresh and grind through every upgrade for every piece of gear that we use?

Atheosim · 2012-07-18, 12:34 PM

No, certs are final.

Sephirex · 2012-07-18, 12:35 PM

You buy it, you keep it. This is pretty typical for an unlimited skill point game. See Eve, Secret World.

Shadowrath · 2012-07-18, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Sephirex

You buy it, you keep it. This is pretty typical for an unlimited skill point game. See Eve, Secret World.

Sums it up and also don't you earn cert points or something like that over time?

Rat · 2012-07-18, 12:42 PM

Thr bigg diff in planetside 2 is you never stop gaining cert points..they have hinted at something like 1 cert point per 10 mins of play time....at higher levels things could cost a hundred points.

ShowNoMercy · 2012-07-18, 12:51 PM

I would implore you to invest in skills that improve the class overall and not just the equipment (especially weapons since they can switched within a class).

Arovien · 2012-07-18, 01:28 PM

Yes, certs are gained overtime, even when offline!

Shadowrath · 2012-07-18, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Rat

Thr bigg diff in planetside 2 is you never stop gaining cert points..they have hinted at something like 1 cert point per 10 mins of play time....at higher levels things could cost a hundred points.

Also, I assume they'll add cash shop stuff to increase the amount of cert points you get in a certain time frame.

Dart · 2012-07-18, 01:47 PM

Yes, they've already confirmed EXP boosters! Thread closed - awaiting move to New Player Questions section.

EisenKreutzer · 2012-07-18, 01:48 PM

I believe they have discussed doing some form of cert "respec," at some point, but I don't know anything concrete. It sort of doesn't matter, since you get an unlimited amount of certs over time, but time will tell if it becomes a feature or not.

SFJake · 2012-07-18, 01:59 PM

Problem I have is that they said it would pretty much take 3 years to get everything.

Which to me, means unlocking things will take quite a lot of time... which means I'm scared boosters will pretty much be a necessity and will probably boost the speed you get things up -excessively-. Which is something I despise in F2P games. Annoying incentives for a FREE game which makes you spend more than a normal one.

And I doubt they would pass yet another opportunity for a way with CASH to respend your points. *sigh*

Fenrys · 2012-07-18, 02:00 PM

20% more damage or some other benefit worth as much as 20% damage

Play for a year and put all your points into a single tech tree, and that's the bonus you'll get using that tech.

For example, a fully-specced mine laying engineer's mines will deal 20% more damage than an uncerted engineer.

Rivenshield · 2012-07-18, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer

I believe they have discussed doing some form of cert "respec," at some point, but I don't know anything concrete. It sort of doesn't matter, since you get an unlimited amount of certs over time, but time will tell if it becomes a feature or not.

That bothers me a little. In two-three years' time everybody will be able to do everything, and exotic abilities and orbital strikes (ugh) will be common as mud. Why not put a cap on it? and let people repec over time to try New Things? That will keep the game fresh and exciting over the long haul.

Or am I full of it?

Shadows · 2012-07-18, 02:03 PM

TL;DR: is this new system of "level grind every gun, vehicle, skill, etc to be able to unlock its full potential" really better than the old cert system where every item was available with 100% functionality up front? Why penalize people who don't have play for 8 hours a day?

So the PS1 system of accessing anything in the game by picking up and dropping certifications is completely gone? And it's been replaced by a system requiring X amount of use to unlock ANY piece of equipment's full functionality?

In ps1 if i wanted to use gun X or vehicle Y, i could simply sacrifice something else and gain the certification for that item immediately, with no further requirements to use everything it had to offer. We didn't pick up the liberator and get told, "Congratulations on the purchase of 1/20th of your Air Support certification! Now all you is need 10,000 XP to unlock the tailgun, 25,000 for tankbuster bombs, 50,000 for air tower rearm/repair, 100,000 for the bomb camera, 300,000 for amp station shields, etc.

Even at low rank, you still had access to everything, just not everything all at one time. And if you wanted to use a tank or a bomber but your low level character didn't have the point for it - or you just didn't want to give up your primary roles - you just made an alternate character. 2 minutes later you had a dedicated lib / prowler driver and your main character was unaffected.

In ps2, i'm forced to spend a significant amount of time leveling up whatever gear I want to use - even if only to try it out and see what it does - just to acquire its full functionality. Many of these are labeled as "sidegrades" but unlocks like countermeasures, extra armor, extra speed, and AA turrets all seem pretty damn significant to me. Regardless of whether or not the player is forced to give something up in order to use these upgrades, they should be available to everyone up front. A one year year player shouldn't have exponentially more options than the a week player.

Say I'm a dedicated grunt player, but I want to fly lib or mosquito, is there any point in making alt chars for this now? You have to start from the bottom of the specialization tree and grind all the way up regardless of what character you're playing, right?

Rewarding players in this way for time spent playing seems too much like an RPG. Joe Casual shouldn't cert a vehicle and then be punished for not spending as much time using it as John Basementdweller.

I understand that this game being marketed to the CoD / BF crowd, and I think that's a great idea. In 2003 i stood in awe of the sheer scale of planetside. Incredible feats that were unimaginable in any other game, were a regular occurrence. Much of this effect started to fade as the server population dropped. I do agree with some of the elitist nerds on here when I hear them crying over how the game is being "dumbed down for the masses" in one way or another. I don't care for low TTK, vehicle seat swapping, zebra stripe paintjobs, lack of inventory, restrictive class system (not saying i want BR23+ supersoldier), or a few other things we've seen so far. But I realize PS2 has to appeal to a broader audience or it will suffer the same fate as PS1.

This new cert system...I don't see it really helping bring new players into the game. It can be discouraging to newcomers when they see higher level people using equipment X, knowing they won't be able to touch it for 6 months. Sure, there are elements of this in BF and CoD already, but is this really the better way? Who wants to be limited because you have a job, girlfriend, family, friends, etc and don;t have as much time to play as others might?

Maybe i'm just overreacting, but i don't think "calm down....wait till beta" really addresses something as fundamental as this.

Shadowrath · 2012-07-18, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Shadows

TL;DR: is this new system of "level grind every gun, vehicle, skill, etc to be able to unlock its full potential" really better than the old cert system where every item was available with 100% functionality up front? Why penalize people who don't have play for 8 hours a day?

So the PS1 system of accessing anything in the game by picking up and dropping certifications is completely gone? And it's been replaced by a system requiring X amount of use to unlock ANY piece of equipment's full functionality?

In ps1 if i wanted to use gun X or vehicle Y, i could simply sacrifice something else and gain the certification for that item immediately, with no further requirements to use everything it had to offer. We didn't pick up the liberator and get told, "Congratulations on the purchase of 1/20th of your Air Support certification! Now all you is need 10,000 XP to unlock the tailgun, 25,000 for tankbuster bombs, 50,000 for air tower rearm/repair, 100,000 for the bomb camera, 300,000 for amp station shields, etc.

Even at low rank, you still had access to everything, just not everything all at one time. And if you wanted to use a tank or a bomber but your low level character didn't have the point for it - or you just didn't want to give up your primary roles - you just made an alternate character. 2 minutes later you had a dedicated lib / prowler driver and your main character was unaffected.

In ps2, i'm forced to spend a significant amount of time leveling up whatever gear I want to use - even if only to try it out and see what it does - just to acquire its full functionality. Many of these are labeled as "sidegrades" but unlocks like countermeasures, extra armor, extra speed, and AA turrets all seem pretty damn significant to me. Regardless of whether or not the player is forced to give something up in order to use these upgrades, they should be available to everyone up front. A one year year player shouldn't have exponentially more options than the a week player.

Say I'm a dedicated grunt player, but I want to fly lib or mosquito, is there any point in making alt chars for this now? You have to start from the bottom of the specialization tree and grind all the way up regardless of what character you're playing, right?

Rewarding players in this way for time spent playing seems too much like an RPG. Joe Casual shouldn't cert a vehicle and then be punished for not spending as much time using it as John Basementdweller.

I understand that this game being marketed to the CoD / BF crowd, and I think that's a great idea. In 2003 i stood in awe of the sheer scale of planetside. Incredible feats that were unimaginable in any other game, were a regular occurrence. Much of this effect started to fade as the server population dropped. I do agree with some of the elitist nerds on here when I hear them crying over how the game is being "dumbed down for the masses" in one way or another. I don't care for low TTK, vehicle seat swapping, zebra stripe paintjobs, lack of inventory, restrictive class system (not saying i want BR23+ supersoldier), or a few other things we've seen so far. But I realize PS2 has to appeal to a broader audience or it will suffer the same fate as PS1.

This new cert system...I don't see it really helping bring new players into the game. It can be discouraging to newcomers when they see higher level people using equipment X, knowing they won't be able to touch it for 6 months. Sure, there are elements of this in BF and CoD already, but is this really the better way? Who wants to be limited because you have a job, girlfriend, family, friends, etc and don;t have as much time to play as others might?

Maybe i'm just overreacting, but i don't think "calm down....wait till beta" really addresses something as fundamental as this.

I'm scared of that as well. I'm hoping a few months into the game the advantages of said certs won't be so overwhelming to discourage newcomers.