Dual-Wielding

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

Your argument implies that pistols would not be useful. My argument implies that dual wielding clashes with the overarching style of the game. It does not, in fact, work both ways.

Mind deliberating on how you think dual wielding would clash with the overarching style of the game?

[Bravix]

Bahaha, I love how the two videos that were linked don't show a single view of the target. Let me break down each video individually.

First video is of two desert eagles. Alright. Lets see, first thing I notice is that he isn't shooting them at the same time, as opposed to most games where you're able to shoot both pistols simultaneously. This is giving him a slower RoF but increased accuracy as it gives each arm more time to re-adjust. Sure, he's able to maintain what appears to be fairly stable shots (vertically at least, I can't see the horizontal sway). However, Mr. Gun Range (I literally lol'd when you brought up the fact that you go to gun ranges as support for your argument) as I'm sure you're well aware, the slightest deviation of aim makes a huge difference at any reasonable range. The refire rate is at the most slightly higher in this video than that of a single pistol (he appears to become more confident and shoots faster after the first few rounds). He's essentially sacrificing a HUGE amount of accuracy and effective range for double the amount of available rounds. As I said before, if it's similar to this, I'm fine with it. Only time it'll be useful is at near-point blank range, by which point my sweeper will have tore their face apart.

To add onto the first video, note his stance. That is NOT a normal firing stance. I have no idea why he's leaned back that far, but I'd like to see him run around in a base like that lol.


The second video I just won't go too far into. He's going akimbo with two machine pistols (Edit: My mistake, upon review only one appears to be a machine pistol). Big deal, his accuracy is shit. Again, not a single view of his target (or if he even had one for that matter). It's not a question of if its possible to dual wield, but of it's effectiveness. If the devs implemented it and didn't do so in a realistic fashion (for example making them more accurate than they should be) it would become ridiculous.

It's also important to note that the people shown in this video are standing still. As with any gun, moving decreases one's accuracy even further. However, that effect is multiplied when one's ability to stabilize the gun with two hands is compromised.

Edit: I swear that wasn't a wall of text when I typed it lol. I think I rambled too long.

[Talek Krell]

The theme of Planetside is a sort of militaristic sci-fi. It's not strictly tied to reality, but it remains close. Most of the equipment you see in it are things that a modern military would use if they had the technology and understanding required. Some of it is being researched and developed already (rail guns, powered exo-armor). The game favors squad tactics and practicality over heroism and hollywood spectacle. Minimalism over excess. A soldier trying to dual wield pistols in a combat situation is being anything but practical.

[Bravix]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

The theme of Planetside is a sort of militaristic sci-fi. It's not strictly tied to reality, but it remains close. Most of the equipment you see in it are things that a modern military would use if they had the technology and understanding required. Some of it is being researched and developed already (rail guns, powered exo-armor). The game favors squad tactics and practicality over heroism and hollywood spectacle. Minimalism over excess. A soldier trying to dual wield pistols in a combat situation is being anything but practical.

I like the way he worded it better than my wall of text

[Krowe]

No.

[Kouza]

Originally Posted by Krowe

No.

.

[Brusi]

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Oh also this would be a nice skill-upgrade down the pistol tree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9f-wgBXJ2E#t=1m28s

By upgrade, are you referring to implants?

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Talek Krell

The theme of Planetside is a sort of militaristic sci-fi. It's not strictly tied to reality, but it remains close. Most of the equipment you see in it are things that a modern military would use if they had the technology and understanding required. Some of it is being researched and developed already (rail guns, powered exo-armor). The game favors squad tactics and practicality over heroism and hollywood spectacle. Minimalism over excess. A soldier trying to dual wield pistols in a combat situation is being anything but practical.

I get what you're saying, but I think 3/4ths of the stuff in Planetside is too farfetched for the military to ever use it. But you all make sound akimbo sound so "fiction". If it's the case, I wouldn't see harm in putting it in this fictional game.

And to Bravix, my intent was not to show you anyone hitting a target at 200m away. All you're saying is "duh you cant hit a target at all after a shot" which is completely false.

I'll end with saying this is a game; not real life. If you don't believe you can akimbo guns IRL, don't. This could be a neat addition for some people. Personally, as I said earlier, I don't really care to use it. I was throwing an idea out there. As you can see in this thread, there are people who like it, people who don't, and Bravix, who decides to be the pessimistic troll of the thread.

Anyways, /end rant

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Brusi

By upgrade, are you referring to implants?

No I'm referring to weapon/armor upgrades. That video should link you to an ammo belt so I was insinuating dual reloading skill upgrades that negate the slow reload for a dual weapon.

Curious, how did you see an implant working in regards to that video?

[Bravix]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I get what you're saying, but I think 3/4ths of the stuff in Planetside is too farfetched for the military to ever use it. But you all make sound akimbo sound so "fiction". If it's the case, I wouldn't see harm in putting it in this fictional game.

And to Bravix, my intent was not to show you anyone hitting a target at 200m away. All you're saying is "duh you cant hit a target at all after a shot" which is completely false.

I'll end with saying this is a game; not real life. If you don't believe you can akimbo guns IRL, don't. This could be a neat addition for some people. Personally, as I said earlier, I don't really care to use it. I was throwing an idea out there. As you can see in this thread, there are people who like it, people who don't, and Bravix, who decides to be the pessimistic troll of the thread.

Anyways, /end rant

I think he loves me <3

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by Bravix

I think he loves me <3

<3

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Zulthus

I wouldn't see harm in putting it in this fictional game.

There's plenty of harm that can be done. So far there's been no real mention of what currently unfulfilled game mechanic niche DW is for. Higher RoF than a pistol with less accuracy. Something else that's higher RoF than a pistol but has greater accuracy? MA. The Pistol -> MA transition doesn't need anything as an interim step. If there was a need then go with SMG. Still using pistol ammo but you get a higher RoF and duration of fire while not ending up with DW's laughable accuracy due to a vastly more stable firing platform.

"But it's soo coooooool!" Sure, it may be but that's never, ever been a good reason to add random stuff to games this far along. Every item has a substantial development cost to it. You have to balance the weapon in relation to other weapons and then re-balance every other closely related weapon in kind. Next you have to get your art department to make the movements work with all of your pre-existing art and then the tech team needs to find room in the memory footprint to add the new assets. All to add something that is both redundant and inferior in the name of "cool". It's a really expensive change you're proposing and one that will have no real role or purpose other than looking like an action hero.

Let it go. "Cool" is great during initial dev discussion but adding something that has no real purpose (meaning, the game is lacking an unforeseen but necessary mechanic) in any stage after alpha is a bad idea.

[Zulthus]

Originally Posted by exLupo

There's plenty of harm that can be done. So far there's been no real mention of what currently unfulfilled game mechanic niche DW is for. Higher RoF than a pistol with less accuracy. Something else that's higher RoF than a pistol but has greater accuracy? MA. The Pistol -> MA transition doesn't need anything as an interim step. If there was a need then go with SMG. Still using pistol ammo but you get a higher RoF and duration of fire while not ending up with DW's laughable accuracy due to a vastly more stable firing platform.

"But it's soo coooooool!" Sure, it may be but that's never, ever been a good reason to add random stuff to games this far along. Every item has a substantial development cost to it. You have to balance the weapon in relation to other weapons and then re-balance every other closely related weapon in kind. Next you have to get your art department to make the movements work with all of your pre-existing art and then the tech team needs to find room in the memory footprint to add the new assets. All to add something that is both redundant and inferior in the name of "cool". It's a really expensive change you're proposing and one that will have no real role or purpose other than looking like an action hero.

Let it go. "Cool" is great during initial dev discussion but adding something that has no real purpose (meaning, the game is lacking an unforeseen but necessary mechanic) in any stage after alpha is a bad idea.

I never said it would be "cool". I don't think anyone here has. I wouldn't have suggested it for that reason. DW could be for someone who deeply specializes in the weapon but doesn't have the certs for MA, preferring to be a vehicle driver. And it's a simple development. 2 of the same pistols. Slightly higher RoF/CoF put together. Reload takes twice as long as a single pistol. People get so much shit on PSU for suggesting things.

[PSxCarebear]

Akimbo 1887s.

No.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by exLupo

So far there's been no real mention of what currently unfulfilled game mechanic niche DW is for. Higher RoF than a pistol with less accuracy. Something else that's higher RoF than a pistol but has greater accuracy? MA. The Pistol -> MA transition doesn't need anything as an interim step. If there was a need then go with SMG. Still using pistol ammo but you get a higher RoF and duration of fire while not ending up with DW's laughable accuracy due to a vastly more stable firing platform.

You admitted there is role. You said no gun has a high rate of fire and bad accuracy. Then again that's now how I imagine the usage. I'm imagining someone choosing dual weapons for the extra ammo. They might burst fire left and right rounds slowly to keep their CoF down on both guns. (Separate reticule idea). The advantage being extended ammo. The alternative with one gun is to reload, but hey if you don't need deadly accuracy it's not a big deal. (Say you're not going for headshots).

You're looking at the accuracy from a realistic standpoint and not a gameplay balancing standpoint. That's going to give you tunnel vision when thinking of a possible design. Imagine the bloom for each weapon is double for each shot. Also without a scope it lacks any added accuracy one might get from using iron sights on a pistol.

You could with this idea be shooting at someone while moving forward using iron sights then when you get closer pull out both pistols since you no longer need the accuracy. This is especially true if pistols are lower damage than an MA.

Originally Posted by exLupo

[runs out of ideas so resorts to development cost and performance complaints]

uh huh... 3 year plan if it isn't in the start of the game. Just discuss the idea. It's weak to attack an idea because you perceive it as being added only because it's "cool". Many ideas and uses have been listed for how they could be used and by whom. (Pilots and non-assault classes).