Can Endgame/Metagame help drive PS2 to continued success? - Page 2

Furret · 2009-11-22, 07:53 AM

resource gathering would be stupid in an FPS, if there was resource gathering it should only be to benefit the empire as a whole, not the person who was gathering the resources.

Maybe an exp bonus

Furret · 2009-11-14, 08:00 AM

Firefly, I mostly agree with you.

If theres an economy though, the only way you should be able to gain Empire (Gold, lets call it just for the sake of argument) Gold is by taking bases, or Outfit Gold if someone in your outfit gains a CR level. If your outfit is the only involved with taking the base, your Outfit gains half the amount of Gold that your empire does.

I absolutely agree, however, that resource gathering cannot be a part of of an FPS. Actually though, now that I think of it, making ANT runs to the nearest warpgate could be called resource gathering. But maybe if the resource gathering was not beneficial to anything or anybody except yourself. Maybe a global shop at each sanctuary, where any resources you collected could be used to buy ONLY ITEMS THAT WOULD CHANGE THE LOOK OF YOUR CHARACTER. The market would also be run by the game, and there are no rising or falling of prices, and if tons of people buy item A, Item A doesn't run out of stock.

Thats going fairly far out on a limb, and I think that if any character personalization items are to be for sale, you should have to pay real money for them.

ANaKeR · 2009-11-19, 12:52 PM

No economy.

Keep the game the way it is. An economy would change the game too much and would take the focus away from it as a First Person Shooter.

Tikuto · 2009-11-19, 03:17 PM

Here to shoot and kill and not to share cock-rings on an in-game auction.

No economy please. Wouldn't be PlanetSide with that in it.

Furret · 2009-11-21, 06:49 PM

It would be appreciated if you guys read what people post instead of just sayin "no economy."

I'm not sure what the reference of 'cock-ring sharing' was, but the economy wouldn't really be player-driven.

Nobody is actually interacting with each other, the only thing that you can do with the economy is buy.

The two ways to affect the economy would be pretty simple.

The more land, bases, or continents you own, the more stuff is available for your character, outfit, and empire to buy.

The more your character, outfit, and empire does (specifically taking bases, taking continents), the more money your character, outfit, or empire has to buy the available equipment.

Since it seems that everyone is against having an economy, The things you can buy shouldn't affect the gameplay, just the way characters and bases look.

For example, you and your outfit successfully take a base. Because you were the hacker that hacked the CC, you gain, lets say, 500 gold. You go to the equipment terminal, and buy a 'Base Hacker' (500 gold) patch, that shows up as a colored ring on your ankle/wrist. This doesn't change you or your enemies ability to fire a gun, it just shows your empire (and enemies) that you've hacked a base. Now lets also say, you were the leader of the outfit that took the base. Depending on the percentage of involvement of people in your outfit vs. people who are not in your outfit, you gain a representative amount of Outfit gold. With the outfit gold you recieved, you buy a 1 day outfit emblem, so that everyone in your outfit has a symbol (of your choice) on their shoulder. Again, gameplay is not affected, you are just recognized as someone in the outfit.

There are also multiple ways this could be expanded, depending on new ideas that aren't in PlanetSide, but have been mentioned on this forum.

If you have a "General of the Army", or someone who has supreme control over the empire, he could have Empire gold, and could use it to buy things for the empire. However, if there were to be Empire gold, it would most likely start to affect the gameplay. However, the Empire gold cant be 'farmed' and no single player could gain enough Empire gold to make a difference. For instance, the GoA could buy extra turrets for a base under siege, or a small outpost to better defend a narrow canyon or other choke point. These Empire gold bought would be completely destructable (once their bar is depleted, they not only go offline, but EXPLODE... The gold is then gone, and more has to be won in order to rebuild the structure.

Also, the 'constructables' could have timers, depending on how much money you bought them for.

Lastly, as a game modifier to make people want to work in squads, you could have a 1.5x exp/gold bonus for being in a full squad, and a 2x exp/gold bonus for being in a full platoon.

Also, outfits could gain 1.25x Outfit exp/Outfit gold for having an all-outfit squad, and 1.5x for a full platoon.

I'm not sure if exp bonuses are already set up in PlanetSide, but a gold bonus would be another incentive to join up in a squad.

Quick recap, gold doesn't affect the gameplay at all, just changes the way your character looks.

Kumoblade · 2009-11-22, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by ANaKeR

No economy.

Keep the game the way it is. An economy would change the game too much and would take the focus away from it as a First Person Shooter.

Keep the game the way it is?

Then that would keep the population the way it is. In a Pathetic state.

If people aren't willing to change or adapt to newer games then stay playing this one if thats all you want.

However, you have to look at the fact that PlanetSide Next won't stand on its own 2 legs if its Modelled the same way as PlanetSide was.

Now a days People want MORE. There has to be another element of gameplay besides go shoot someone's face off in a Mindless war of no dominance.

If you're happy with PlanetSide, thats great, play PlanetSide. However, modelling a Next Gen Game after a 6 year old game is a STUPID MOVE. It's got to have more selling points than Counter-Strike, COD4, Global Agenda, UT3, etc... Games which offer "First Person Shooter" Elements, and Global Agenda appearing to be setting the bar for what may classify as an MMOFPS (which I really don't think it is).

Personally, I don't think there should be an Out-of-Outfit trade economy.

I think games like Mafia Wars for facebook did a damn good job on how an economy should be, or hell, even Borderlands. I think there should be a Salary provided to your character based on your Battle Rank/Command Rank/Achievements. And I think there should be an Upkeep on what kind of gear/items you want to use and you purchase/sell upgrades and such from Outfit Vendors/Faction Vendors and be rid of character trading all together. Then other players can go to said vendors and find items that others have sold there and are for sale. No player setting prices BS.

Also, I think there should be a salvage yard where you can drop off salvaged items you've picked up which are used for upgrading empire cities/outfits/garages, etc.. to provide Outfits and/or Empires with more available and better upgrades for vehicles, weapons, etc...

Furret · 2009-11-22, 05:35 PM

I think a salary would be an interesting concept to add to PSN.

Though, i'm of the opinion that while there should be an economy in PlanetSide Next, it should be completely controlled by the 'government'. An economy would definitely set PSN apart from other games of its genre (again), SOE would have to implement it correctly. Players should have little to no control over prices.
Most everyone who is in favor of an economy is also in favor of having a computer program control the economy.

Kumoblade · 2009-11-22, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Furret

I think a salary would be an interesting concept to add to PSN.

Though, i'm of the opinion that while there should be an economy in PlanetSide Next, it should be completely controlled by the 'government'. An economy would definitely set PSN apart from other games of its genre (again), SOE would have to implement it correctly. Players should have little to no control over prices.
Most everyone who is in favor of an economy is also in favor of having a computer program control the economy.

With good reason. People are assholes when you give them any amount of power/control over an economy. Look at HP who made 1.9 billion in 12 weeks, and turned around and gave all their employees paycuts in a poor economic situation, and plan for more paycuts next year. =P.

3rd Party NPCs and governments should control the economy. Big wig super corporations, black market dealerships, etc.. etc..

Honestly, I'm all for just more interactivity. We have First Person Shooter games. PS:Next needs something to set it apart. What if engineers could sabotage enemy vehicles? Stealth in and plant bombs on vehicles so when they're started up, they go boom, or they break down after so long of driving. Tear important components out and reverse engineer them so your Outfit can implement cross-faction parts in their vehicles, etc...

What if Hackers could download valuable data from enemy terminals to assist in getting plans/upgrades to make for your own faction. Or turn on a Gas switch to flush the enemy spawn room with carbon Monoxide to poison them when capturing a base, or locking doors/unlocking others from a remote terminal associated with a base? What if you could engage in hacking warfare with other hackers? What if you could hack medical terminals to inject poison into people instead of healing them?

What if infiltrators could don enemy uniforms, sneak in and steal vital information from terminals?

A race to new technologies founded on spying/hacking/engineering/chop shopping/and salvaging. An economy and warfare based on a race to beat the other factions to new weapons and vehicles and gear while the other factions tries to prevent advancement and sabotage advancements you make.

With so much to do, you could get quite an amount of diversity in a FPS while having hundreds of soldiers on the field of battle with something worth fighting for.

Sifer2 · 2009-11-23, 01:35 AM

I agree with what kumoblade said above. All you people so against the idea of any economy do need to realize that if Planetside is not changed in the sequel its unlikely to do any better than the first did. I am sure SOE themselves realize this an we need to come to grips with that.

Anyway yeah when it comes down it I too kind of prefer more of a global system than an individual system. Where gathering resources might benefit you somewhat but is mostly about improving your factions supplies of equipment an such. Similar to how ANT's work powering bases for everyone. I don't think anyone is asking for a world of warcraft style auction house.

Furret · 2009-11-23, 10:02 PM

Yes, I absolutely agree with Kumo here.

If anything is added to PlanetSide, It should either be to improve on parts that were already in PS 1, or something to set apart PSN from other MMOFPS's.

It's got to be difficult to put all of the stuf he's suggested into a game, but SOE did it back in 2001, they can do it again.

Basically, PlanetSide's success mostly due to the fact that there was so much to do. All of the above are good ideas, SOE just has to implement them properly.

And don't you think this forum's spell check ought to have SOE and PlanetSide in it's dictionary? Fairly common words 'round these parts.

ANaKeR · 2009-11-25, 10:12 AM

The reason I think there should be no economy is because I believe its a step in the wrong direction for this game. More effort should be put into developing the game so that the FPS component is always changing as opposed to adding a an economy which is completely independent from FPS.

For example, have unlockable features for your weapons that are gained through achievements (consider the weapon variations in Team Fortress 2)
[I'll be writing an article on this idea soon]

Firefly · 2009-11-29, 06:20 PM

"NO ECONOMY" means exactly that.

No fucking economy. It's a goddamn shooter. You get a gun, you go shoot shit, and you fight-die-respawn. The end.

No consumables. No crafting, no fabricating, no making shit. No commodities. No "cash for clunkers". No auction house. Anything that would allow people to log in, sit in the fucking Sanctuary and farm materials - whether it's NTUs, bullet casings, scrap metal, salvaged gear - keep it the fuck out of an FPS. The last thing I want are econo-whores, gold-farmers, and gold-selling spammers.

Keep it simple. Planetside + better graphics, no BFRs, and naval combat.

Kumoblade · 2009-11-29, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

"NO ECONOMY" means exactly that.

No fucking economy. It's a goddamn shooter. You get a gun, you go shoot shit, and you fight-die-respawn. The end.

No consumables. No crafting, no fabricating, no making shit. No commodities. No "cash for clunkers". No auction house. Anything that would allow people to log in, sit in the fucking Sanctuary and farm materials - whether it's NTUs, bullet casings, scrap metal, salvaged gear - keep it the fuck out of an FPS. The last thing I want are econo-whores, gold-farmers, and gold-selling spammers.

Keep it simple. Planetside + better graphics, no BFRs, and naval combat.

Its very reassuring to know that Sony will most likely not take this approach, as it would Doom PlanetSide Next to the same fate as PlanetSide. A hack ridden unsupported game.

But hey, At least a new failed game would make ^^^ happy. If your Crusade against anything with an Economy/Dynamic changes would successful it would spell disaster that would make Richard Garriott laugh his ass off and think about making Tabula Rasa 2.

If you got your way though, I hope Sony would save us some face and just put on the packaging of PS: Next "Its Planetside...With better graphics!" so the ones who really hope for a new PlanetSide game don't have to worry about picking it up. =P

Firefly · 2009-11-29, 11:46 PM

Riiiiight... Planetside failed because it had no economy.

Kumoblade · 2009-11-30, 02:28 AM

Originally Posted by Firefly

Riiiiight... Planetside failed because it had no economy.

Wow..... No, it failed because it was 20, no 25, no 40 battle ranks of the same thing over and over with no support, a crappy expansion and then giant robots when barely anybody was left to care.

Whether Planetside was released 6 years ago, 4 years ago, or even in 2 years with just "better graphics" The outcome would be the same.

But I guess I can't say it really failed. It's still up and kicking. but with an abyssmal population.

Never once did I say planetside failed because it didn't have an economy. I said it failed because of what it is. 20+ battle ranks of the exact same thing over and over and over. It was fun for a long while, but it eventually gets old.

Having things to do, objectives, a goal will keep people playing. Having an economy may make you angry and upset, but unless you're willing to pay Sony for all the profit it would lose by NOT having an economy, its probably going to be the way it goes as it will bring Sony money which is what they want. And its what a lot of gamers want as well, with the exception of a few right-wingers who are afraid of change.

And you still can't deny that PlanetSide Next, should it be just PlanetSide with better graphics, would end up in the same bargain bin as PlanetSide.

Good on you for having such Fervor about PlanetSide and wanting to clone it, but after 6 years, it tastes kind of bland, and needs a new flavor.