The Battle Island w/player created structures.

[Sifer2]

I like the creativity behind this but i'm not sure it would work as well as you imagine. I mean player created bases sound like they accomplish basically the same as the AMS. A spawn point/weapon terminals. And we already know that when you give players the ability to place this spawn point they just drive it as close to the capture point as possible. So you would have a Volcano with a whole bunch of bases right at the bottom of it, and a whole island that is barren with no fighting. Sounds like Crown 2.0 to me.

Now granted if resources were made more important, and placed all over then yes I could see it possibly working. If Infantry resources were needed to actually respawn Infantry. Then suddenly yes the metagame would drastically shift to something almost like Starcraft. Where players had to expand, and place bases on resources to extract them. Though the whole Volcano doomsday eruption would only get in the way of this metagame really.

[Babyfark McGeez]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Funny you bring up Wurm online. I was the art director of it for 3 years. My work paved the way for the new player models, trees, ETC.. Many of the useability refinements were championed by me as well.

Then you should know it is very well possible to give players creative freedom without having to run through a landscape with dicks slabbed into it all around.

Also yay, you still play?

[HereticusXZ]

The offshore stuff req to invade the continent proposed I don't like, It reminds me to much of battlefield how you started off on a carrier and had to invade, at least not until they make it possible to travel seamlessly between continents without loading screens.

Player constructed content like Bunkers or towers is a looooong way from happening but then again something smaller like a engineer deploying a small sandbag wall or a big X like Tank trap to use as cover in place of the MANA turret might be more conceivable to see sooner - Something along the lines of what Engineers could construct in Mount and Blade Napoleonic Wars.

The idea that the volcano could erupt and reset all the stuff that players built I dislike because it would be to similar to any other FPS where the maps reset and load into the next battle.

With the exception of the natural environment purposefully attacking players and player constructed fortifications I wouldn't see how this special new continent would be any different then any other continent. Thorned vines to do damage to infantry in certain areas, mud that could notably slow vehicles, and a fog that would blind aircraft at a certain altitude could be patched into any other continent as is, same with engineers or any player in general being able to construct fortifications.

Why would we want to limit some of this stuff to a special snowflake continent beyond a possible MLG Arena use for competition between Outfits?

[Figment]

They wanted to have it so you could call down towers and other structures from orbit.

[Sledgecrushr]

If its player created then it also has to be player destroyed since Im guessing the map would never be reset. There would have to be hard limits on how fortifications are put together because you would end up with impenetrable defenses.

What I would like to see player made are small bunkers, trenches, tank trap areas, concertina wire. These things would be added to the defenses of an existing base and would all be destructable through various means. Bunkers would be destroyable with concentrated tank fire. Tank traps taken out by infantry.

To use these tools I dont necessarily think we would have to have another continent. I would like fortification features to be able to be built in every base and outpost.

[Figment]

What if there was a NTU resupply needed to maintain a base's structural integrity? >.>

Too much micromanagement?

[Sledgecrushr]

Originally Posted by Figment

What if there was a NTU resupply needed to maintain a base's structural integrity? >.>

Too much micromanagement?

Some micromanagement would be ok with me. Maybe the whole base will simply de-rezz back into its basic nanites if you dont keep the NTUs coming. This would definitely help in overbuilding bases.

[Figment]

Another thing I would say is interference radii and construction radii.

Amount of spawns for instance. I think a lot can be learned from Command & Conquer.

Lastly, construction cost (base is allowed to cost XXXX Auraxian schmuckers) and upkeep cost for fine tuning.


C&C games always start with the MCV type unit: you select a location and you can build in adjecency or vicinity around it. The MCV (in this case, would be the spawn building for instance), would have a certain radius in which you can build new buildings. These buidings would have smaller radii of their own.

Terrain shape determines if you can build there. Possibly, you need to have platforms as foundations, much like the concrete slabs in Dune2000 and Tiberium Sun that prevent erosion (and in the latter case tunnel units from entering the base).

Walls could be build by setting up corner areas, possibly towers and determining if there's a gate in between or a wall. All these could have their own interference radii and connection points for walkways and buildings.

To limit what can be built, perhaps there's a limit on the amount of specific buildings that can be placed within the confines of an area. However, I'm quite certain we'd see fastly improved defensive structures.

I think it'd be pretty hard to design and build such bases in real time however (what with others attacking while it's being built). Not to mention people not liking one another's buildings or placement. Or worse, people creating characters on another empire to deconstruct a base. Possibly, outfits could claim a territory to expand and improve bases on, but that'd be annoying when the area changes hands or when the warpgates change hands. I think that might actually be the hardest thing to manage: player interaction and (non-)cooperation with one another while building these areas up.

Though on the other hand, SOE has some experience with more of their MMO games getting player housing.

[Sonny]

Great ideas. I love the idea of smaller-scale battle islands and having the gameplay rules be different from those on the normal continents. I'm for anything that could increase the diversity of playstyles within PS 2.

Also the idea of player-made structures is absolutely awesome, but like someone else said, I guess we'll be waiting a while .

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Babyfark McGeez

Then you should know it is very well possible to give players creative freedom without having to run through a landscape with dicks slabbed into it all around.

Also yay, you still play?

I should have expanded my comment.

What you see is the end result of a lot of work on the developers side. I ran a submissions system as well, being an indi game we took people works that they submitted and used them in game, however my first statement applied here. Most of it was technically unusable, as in, did not work with the system, or had an egregious overuse of polygons or texture waste for the item in question. That's before the evaluation of if it even fits in the world.

As for the in game tools, no, that was also a great deal of work as well, as users would do things like build 3 layers of walls with 5 high end gates each with pristine level locks on them. This was not good game play for anyone.

I'm not against the idea of user content, but its a huge burden on the keepers of a game.

There is a golden rule for games: The player will do what they can, when they can, and if they want to"

You can put all the radius and no build zones you like. They will find a way to cheese the system and call it "emergent". When you add a level of player ownership, they will game the system to make sure what they have built is impenetrable. They will use bugs ( Bounce hols, a Physics quirk of the terrain ) and call them features.

The list goes on. Once ownership or creation comes into play, expect the worst of people to come out.

I'm sure SOE has a plan for all this, but I do not envy them, nor would I personally take that on again. I personally think it will be a distraction more than anything, as players and whatnot figure out how to plant things in unintended ways and call it "skill".

[Dougnifico]

I was never a fan of limited engagement (ie. Excluding a class or vehicle from the area just because). This idea, however; is pretty damn awesome. I would love to play on a map like this.

On the topic of battle islands, I don't think that you should exclude. I do support "environmental difficulties." Perhaps the terrain doesn't allow for vehicles (your trails) or an electromagnetic anomaly prevents rocket lock-on and HE shields. Some people hate this idea, because its PvE, but I would love the environment would try to kill you (killer vines, creatures, quicksand, explosions from gas buildup, etc.).

[Chaff]

.
Maybe try it on a smaller level. Y' never know if you don't try it. There's enough here to merit trying it. Currently, does Sony have the required time, interest, commitment, and resources required ?
I highly doubt it. I Love the idea of player contructable structures......
.

[EVILPIG]

I never said that we would limit gear, like the original battle islands, so not sure why so many think that. Also, the volcanic eruption, if it was put in, would not clear the entire island. It would only wipe out those in the core of the volcano and rain damage on the outside of it. That would not extend beyond that area.

As for why this on this cont? Currently, you'd have to redesign the maps to fit any constructable buildings, this is a new area designed for such things. I actually lean more towards Sundy Spawns and Lodestar Spawn vs. buildings. There would be resources to harvest across the map, just no hard spawns. The only hard spawn and ownership base would be in the belly of the volcano, which is a journey into the cone to get to.

[Dougnifico]

Pig, not saying you suggested that we have the same mechanics, just want to make sure to give a -1 to the original format. Devs do see this after all. lol

[EVILPIG]

Positive or negative views are welcome!