Meaningful Customization & Balance via Tradeoff Decisions

[exLupo]

Originally Posted by Malorn

EVE Online shows how time-based power progression turns out - with many alts and a lot of missed opportunities from players who wanted to feel competitive but know they can't possibly catch up to vets with many years of skill points. They're effectivley operating at a handicap which they can never overcome. This is bad.

While not being able to ever "catch up" is bad, this is an example of a very common misconception of EVE's skill system. It's not hard at all for a new player to catch up in one particular area. If your goal is T1 Battleships with T2 guns and 4s and 5s in support skills, you can get there. Don't deviate and dabble, just stick to your plan. Can your vet buddy also fly a covert ops boat, produce T2 missiles and run a 1000 man corporation? Sure. Does any of this matter when you're smashing your ships together? Not at all.

Age in EVE equates very early on to power but that plateaus quickly. Eventually all age really means is role versatility. An old PS2 player could be able to grunt and pilot and infiltrate and drive a tank and... None of that matters when it's him versus a relatively new player in a stand up rexo/ha/med/engi* brawl. Will role versatility matter in the overall scheme of things? Of course. Does it matter when that relative, aggregate 20% is nullified? Again, not at all.

As an EVE player without any alts, the only place I feel like I'm missing out -is- alts and only then because I can't perform two independent actions at once. I don't like the game enough to pay for it 2x per month or grid enough cash to pay for it in game. I've never felt like my combat skills lagging behind my peers except when I choose to put points into Mining Drone Frigate 5 or max out my Astrometrics. I'm choosing versatility before power and even then I still catch up with them when they get their 4s and 5s and move on to logistics boats or command skills that I don't need.

I have no doubt that PS2 will forever suffer from the same fundamental "I'll never be able to play now that the game has been out for X." misunderstanding. Hopefully, like EVE, this won't be the reality.

*Skill stacking example for PS2 relative to EVE's T2 gunned T1 boat with viable support skills (armor, hull, shield, nav, cap, etc.)

[Rbstr]

Originally Posted by exLupo

As an EVE player without any alts, the only place I feel like I'm missing out -is- alts and only then because I can't perform two independent actions at once.

That's my assessment of it too. The only reason I've wanted an alt is so I can do two things at once...training the main character to pick up new skills would have taken less time and cash than building an alt.

it's a "very common misconception" then its already failed. Regardless of whether I am correct (which I am), if the perception to new players is that they can't catch up then they won't sit around in forums debating it - they just won't play the game. Damage is done. Its a "misconception" that PS2 cannot afford to have.

Except you ARE wrong. You do catch up in all but role diversity. And even that diminishes over time.
As a very old EVE character now, I fly and shoot just about anything I'd ever want, I completely outclass even similar aged players in combat skills (as I have no inustry desire)...yet I get blown up by 3 month noobs and similarly aged, yet highly industrial, players regularly. That's because they play more and have the money to buy the really nice equipment.

EVE combat has certain time barriers to entry, but once you're qualified for a ship, the things that really matter are how much you can spend on it and how good you are at flying it. People are nearly always able to fly a ship FAR before they can afford it. The economy is EVE's power meter, not the number of skill points.
You can deny that all you want, but that's the truth.

EVE's skill system, and in fact the entire game, is designed for long term play. If a new player sees the skill system as a turn off, they won't like the game w/o the skill system either, the entire game universe would have to be changed to fit that whim because achieving things is as much about long term planing and politics as it is simply blowing crap up.

YOU don't like that long term strategy that the long skill system requires. Many do. That's not a failing of the game. It's an interest mismatch.

Obviously PS2 need not be designed for such scales. There is no reason that PS2's skills cannot be significantly shorter or cap at much lower levels than EVE's.

I mostly agree with you for the trade-off aspects for PS2, because I think it fits the scale of the game.
However, you are simply wrong about EVE - If EVE had taken the short term equality route it would simply not have had the same kind of player base longevity it has.