A Wee Balance Scenario: AA vs Aircraft

[Mechzz]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

So others can use vehicle you purchased straight away? I thought they said you could leave your vehicle outside of a base for a reasonable period of time without fearing someone will jack it. After certain period you're away others could take it not before so that wouldn't be effective method if what I said was true. People within an outfit will have to diversify enough to achieve overall maximum efficiency, or at least that how I believe would be the best.

Point taken. I was implicitly assuming the same model as PS1 - you could choose levels of vehicle access, something like:
1. yourself only
2. squad only
3. empire

And rotation could certainly be done with that model.

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Mechzz

Point taken. I was implicitly assuming the same model as PS1 - you could choose levels of vehicle access, something like:
1. yourself only
2. squad only
3. empire

And rotation could certainly be done with that model.

Wow, I didn't know that was the model - it's great actually. Every day I learn something new about PS1 what makes me regret I didn't try it when it was going through free trial phase. Damn those cursed mechs that drove me away from it!!

[Toppopia]

What if you hopped in the aircraft/vehicle then squad mates hopped in, then you hopped out of pilot/driver seat, could a passenger change to the pilot/driver seat or was that a locked position to everyone except the person that called the vehicle?

[Mechzz]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Wow, I didn't know that was the model - it's great actually. Every day I learn something new about PS1 what makes me regret I didn't try it when it was going through free trial phase. Damn those cursed mechs that drove me away from it!!

Yeah, PS1 got a lot of things right, but balanced AA/Aircav wasn't one of them. Hence this thread. Was interested to see how vehement the reaction against the idea of powerful hand-held AA would be

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Mechzz

Yeah, PS1 got a lot of things right, but balanced AA/Aircav wasn't one of them. Hence this thread. Was interested to see how vehement the reaction against the idea of powerful hand-held AA would be

Well you definitely have the better perspective at that but I nevertheless think that AA/Aircav balance should be as close as RL situation. Few functional base AA guns with decent gunners should keep all of the aircav away so they would need ground assistance before pounding the place, next vehicles with AA should have all things considered 50-50 chance against AV equipped aircrafts and infantrymen with hand-held AA guns should be there just a a last resort and useful in larger numbers primarily against slower/larger aircrafts like Galaxies. (if my military concepts are slightly outdated please don't mind since I mostly play WW2 games).

[Mechzz]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Well you definitely have the better perspective at that but I nevertheless think that AA/Aircav balance should be as close as RL situation. Few functional base AA guns with decent gunners should keep all of the aircav away so they would need ground assistance before pounding the place, next vehicles with AA should have all things considered 50-50 chance against AV equipped aircrafts and infantrymen with hand-held AA guns should be there just a a last resort and useful in larger numbers primarily against slower/larger aircrafts like Galaxies. (if my military concepts are slightly outdated please don't mind since I mostly play WW2 games).

my bold! Turrets were not previously a viable AA option since they were sited on the walls of a base. They were the first things removed by the arriving MBTs and it was a brave engy that tried to repair one during an active base fight. Base fights quickly became infantry fights as the courtyard could not be defended against aircav/tank combination.

Now, if the AA turrets were placed inside the base perimeter and not somewhere every tank could reach that would be OK. Failing that, hand-held AA should be a reasonable way to discourage basic aricraft.

Sorry, I'm wandering a bit as its late.

Thanks to all contributors to this thread so far - it's helped me get something off my chest that had gotten me wound up on another thread.

[Pyreal]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Yeah probably, but haven't you been listening - by flying (buying aircrafts) he'll have to sacrifice resource otherwise available to purchase cert/sidegrades for his character. Since his baseline consumption of resources will probably be much higher it's only fair that he has better 1 on 1 chances with anything in the game (except special AA vehicles and emplacements of course where it should be around equal). That's fair tradeoff if you ask me.

Buy certs with resources? Source please. I thought certs and side-grades were bought with xp, or set to train like EVE.

[proxykalevra]

what i really want to know is how hard it will be to refit a aircraft. in ps1 i used to just hit half speed on my reaver and fly low over/around the air pads and that was more than enough time to snag a personal loadout.

even though i am a pilot i hope there is at least a 3-5 sec refit time because otherwise i can just keep changing wep load outs to suit the battlefield making air cav way op in ps2...

i mean basically i could do a high altitude recon flyby refit if i have the wrong weps (say i show up with aa weps to take control of the skies) then i switch with a quick flyby to say av (skyguard turret on a tank) come back wtfbbq the tank, and if i keep getting missile locks from infantry a quick flyby refit to ai and i can fight them too...

i dunno about anyone else but from what i have seen i feel like a good pilot (especially in those nightmare groups of 10-20 outfit flyboys) are all that you need.... but i was also air cav in ps1 until the day my sub ran out.

edit:
pyreal i think he means that pulling a vehicle from a base might consume resources... because i am prety sure certs are xp unlocks... not sure if i like that idea or not.... seems like being able to pull aircraft from many bases would make them better in that regard too because of the low travel time of aircraft....

[Purple]

i think we will see the balance of aircraft and AA change alot during beta.

[Udnknome]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

What exactly constitutes an AI loadout for an aircraft?

Perhaps Napalm?

[proxykalevra]

Originally Posted by Udnknome

Perhaps Napalm?

ooo i like this idea... tho i think that would probably be napalm rockets (pretty big splash of napalm or some other killing substance....) but it would be cool to see lib's drop napalm bombs....(i might have just grown some wood.)


off topic: is it true that home made napalm is equal parts gasoline and orange concentrate? that was in... fightclub i think.

[Mechzz]

Originally Posted by proxykalevra

even though i am a pilot i hope there is at least a 3-5 sec refit time because otherwise i can just keep changing wep load outs to suit the battlefield making air cav way op in ps2...

I have to say that I wouldn't deny aircav a quick refit. Grunts can pop up to a terminal and hop classes, and can also get ammo drops in the field.

What I would mind, as a grunt, is having no viable way to kill you when you are in a basic aircraft and I have basic hand-held AA. If I can't kill you with it, then don't give me an under-powered leaf-blower and call it AA.

[Mechzz]

Originally Posted by proxykalevra

ooo i like this idea... tho i think that would probably be napalm rockets (pretty big splash of napalm or some other killing substance....) but it would be cool to see lib's drop napalm bombs....(i might have just grown some wood.)


off topic: is it true that home made napalm is equal parts gasoline and orange concentrate? that was in... fightclub i think.

Napalm would be a cool visual, (for those not burning in agony ), but iirc there are currently no bombers in the game?

And "napalm " = NAPthenic/PALMitic acid. It's a heavy, sticky residue of oil processing, so no orange juice!

[Toppopia]

Originally Posted by proxykalevra

ooo i like this idea... tho i think that would probably be napalm rockets (pretty big splash of napalm or some other killing substance....) but it would be cool to see lib's drop napalm bombs....(i might have just grown some wood.)


off topic: is it true that home made napalm is equal parts gasoline and orange concentrate? that was in... fightclub i think.

To make napalm, get petrol and polystyrene, you need alot of polystyrene though, had heaps of it and only made a small bucket full of it. From like a few years of buying stuff and hoarding it under my bed. Then my brother burnt himself because he lit it but it had an invisible flame to it. So have fun making it

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

Buy certs with resources? Source please. I thought certs and side-grades were bought with xp, or set to train like EVE.

Sorry it was a bit late. Not sidegrades exactly in narrow sense of that word but you'll be able to unlock new stuff/equipment (rifles, pistols and everything else - I believe these were unlocked with certs for weapons even though they were bought in bundles in PS1) permanently for use with same resources used for buying consumables like grenades, medkits and all vehicles for that matter if I understood correctly. Assuming that prices will follow common sense buying tanks or aircrafts should strain your budget more and thus postpone the rate at which you'll be able to acquire new personal weapons what is a fair tradeoff imo. Investing more in that areas and having baseline consumption higher (I'm sure that equipping rifles you once unlock won't cost anything yet buying tanks you bought permit/certed for will drain your resource everytime you call one in) and that shuld will leave with much narrower combat spectrum when forced out of vehicle of your choice than someone who is playing as dedicated infantry. If you add to that the fact they will almost certainly have their personal arms skills much lower than people playing infantry that will be quite enough.

Source: FPS guru interview I posted on page 3.