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Old 2012-04-15, 12:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #16
Vancha
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho View Post
I am already right aren't I?
I'd say pretty much everyone's right so far, they just have their own scenarios in mind.
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Old 2012-04-15, 01:12 PM   [Ignore Me] #17
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Re: Leadership


Thank you gentlemen, and/or others, its been a real eye-opener...
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Old 2012-04-15, 01:30 PM   [Ignore Me] #18
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Re: Leadership


id say all you need to lead is confidence. all you need to do is make decisions like its the best one of your life and people will follow you even if you have no idea whats going on.
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Old 2012-04-15, 01:53 PM   [Ignore Me] #19
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Shogun View Post
but a leader is just as good as his team.

you can have higby himself or the head of the us army as leaders, but if their squads just don´t follow orders, and decide to go zerging instead, your leaders will only be able to lead their own balls. because there is no real authority in games, and not following orders has no consequences.
I agree. A well executed bad plan is better than a poorly executed good plan.
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Old 2012-04-15, 02:56 PM   [Ignore Me] #20
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Re: Leadership


I think leadership of different things is very different. Leading an outfit in a game is very different from leading a company in real life... similarly leading is very different from game to game. Leading a guild in an MMORPG and leading an outfit in PS2 are very different.

That said I think great leadership in video games is defined by community building. Great leaders in my experience actually value their members and their primary goal is to create a community within the outfit and provide all members with an enjoyable experience. There are leaders who are power hungry and like the feeling they get from ordering people around, and then there are leaders who are altruistic in a sense because they like seeing players in their outfit/guild have fun. They're typically knowledgeable about the game, they command their members the same way other leaders would, but that isn't what they're in it for.

A good guild/outfit is all about community in my experience. The guilds that last and often times become best at the game in my experience have been the ones with a real sense of community. The members know each other, joke around, have inside jokes, and genuinely enjoy spending time with each other. Those are the kinds of guilds that stick together for years, they're the guilds you see in every game you play year after year, and behind that is a guild leader who knows how to build a community. This is a video game, guilds are about having fun. In PS1 I was in a few guilds that were all about power structures and chains of command, thats cool and it works to some extent, but it really just wasn't fun, there wasn't that sense of community, and in reality the structure of the guild didn't make them more effective. Those small outfits who everyone on the server fears who just seem to dominate the game don't have power structures, they're just a group of guys who enjoy playing together and through that they start build really good chemistry that allows them to play really well as a group.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:04 PM   [Ignore Me] #21
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Re: Leadership


when i was going to play a squadleader in a fanfilm, i used to practice for this role by leading a planetside squad with ts. i told my outfitguys what i was going to do and the squad played out like an actual roleplay squad. was a great experience and fun for everybody. sadly my scene never got filmed anyway and the film never got finished.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:09 PM   [Ignore Me] #22
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Snipefrag View Post
As someone who did a lot of leadership early on in PS1 I would expand this to say the balls to make hard and possibly unpopular descisions. For me, in PS1 those were the leaders that really stood out. The ones who wanted to play the meta game and didnt mind stepping on a few peoples toes to ensure success for the empire, be it recalling deadlocked continents to resecure the backline, focusing attention on the caves/battle islands to gain some long term strategic advantage etc etc.
holy fucking shit this a thousand times over. you need to have nads made of steel to to deal with some peoples shit. being able to rant on /c doesnt hurt, either when you're browbeating the shit out of somewhere who is being an idiot.

the number of times ive been in the doghouse over calling a homecont or a cave or god-fucking-forbid oshur... if I had a penny for each time I ended up being right, I'd be able to buy S-O-fucking-E.

Also, I personally prefer small squad combat with tight(er) but still relaxed comms. At the same time, I enjoy shooting the shit with others all the same. Just when fighting is going on, save that chat about your dog for later. I'll hear it, just not right fucking now because I'm trying to not take a fucking prowler shell to the face.

Also on that note, if you cant handle my swearing, go read a goddamn bible. Thats the other thing about comms with some people, they hate swearing especially from the leader. I cant stand that, so I only join outfits that just dont care.

Last edited by p0intman; 2012-04-15 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:19 PM   [Ignore Me] #23
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Re: Leadership


PS1 leadership enforcement went as far as "COME WITH US OR WE WILL KICK YOU FROM THE OUTFIT!" which is fine if youre trying to run an organised military team, those people know what there in for, but this game will be comporable to other MMO's in which you join the Guild of the people who are the most fun to talk to. Where is the happy medium? Do i want results where my voice isnt heard, or do i have fun with like minded individuals? I have to think its the latter.

I think that resources are the key to enforcement, i have suggested this before but no one seems interested. Bribery. Presumably the outfits you enter will have a backpool of resources gathers from players within. If enthusiasm is flagging, bribe them to get a job done. People will throw themselves at a brick wall all night for the promise of better exp rewards and resources.

Ofcourse you will all say that "that encourages enitrely the wrong attitude". Good, i want people to give me a reason to fight beyond "IM THE BOSS AND I SAY SO" (said boss being a mouthy teen from Texas).
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Last edited by Cosmical; 2012-04-15 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:26 PM   [Ignore Me] #24
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Cosmical View Post
PS1 leadership enforcement went as far as "COME WITH US OR WE WILL KICK YOU FROM THE OUTFIT!" which is fine if youre trying to run an organised military team, those people know what there in for, but this game will be comporable to other MMO's in which you join the Guild of the people who are the most fun to talk to. Where is the happy medium? Do i want results where my voice isnt heard, or do i have fun with like minded individuals? I have to think its the latter.

I think that resources are the key to enforcement, i have suggested this before but no one seems interested. Bribery. Presumably the outfits you enter will have a backpool of resources gathers from players within. If enthusiasm is flagging, bribe them to get a job done. People will throw themselves at a brick wall all night for the promise of better exp rewards and resources.

Ofcourse you will all say that "that encourages enitrely the wrong attitude". Good, i want people to give me a reason to fight beyond "IM THE BOSS AND I SAY SO" (said boss being a mouthy teen from Texas).

See, heres the thing: I wasn't made a leader of many of the outfits I joined because i told people to follow me or else. People followed me pretty much because I knew wtf I was doing and had the experience to see the mistakes of others and learn from them. If people say 'FOLLOW ME OR FUCKING ELSE I WILL BOOT YOUR ASS OUT OF A GALAXY OVER THE OCEAN!'.. I'll quit an outfit if someone leads like that. They're bad leaders with an ego complex that serve to do nothing but piss people off.

Granted, I do still boot people out of a galaxy over the ocean if they're being dicks, but thats after the fact.

Last edited by p0intman; 2012-04-15 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:29 PM   [Ignore Me] #25
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Cosmical View Post
PS1 leadership enforcement went as far as "COME WITH US OR WE WILL KICK YOU FROM THE OUTFIT!" which is fine if youre trying to run an organised military team, those people know what there in for, but this game will be comporable to other MMO's in which you join the Guild of the people who are the most fun to talk to. Where is the happy medium? Do i want results where my voice isnt heard, or do i have fun with like minded individuals? I have to think its the latter.

I think that resources are the key to enforcement, i have suggested this before but no one seems interested. Bribery. Presumably the outfits you enter will have a backpool of resources gathers from players within. If enthusiasm is flagging, bribe them to get a job done. People will throw themselves at a brick wall all night for the promise of better exp rewards and resources.

Ofcourse you will all say that "that encourages enitrely the wrong attitude". Good, i want people to give me a reason to fight beyond "IM THE BOSS AND I SAY SO" (said boss being a mouthy teen from Texas).
i think this is already partly covered by the mission system. the leader can put up missions and if the squad accomplishes them, they get xp bonus. don´t know if ressources are involved, but i think so.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:42 PM   [Ignore Me] #26
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Cosmical View Post
PS1 leadership enforcement went as far as "COME WITH US OR WE WILL KICK YOU FROM THE OUTFIT!" which is fine if youre trying to run an organised military team.
Or you know... playing to win.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:44 PM   [Ignore Me] #27
Cosmical
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Shogun View Post
i think this is already partly covered by the mission system. the leader can put up missions and if the squad accomplishes them, they get xp bonus. don´t know if ressources are involved, but i think so.
Yeh i know. But i mean substantial cash rewards. Like, if you follow outfit orders tonight you get +25% resource bonus from the outfit pool. I hate the thought that Outfit resources are going to be sat there stagnating so that the outfit can buy a new Emblem. If the members are earning it, they should get something back.

I just think theres a whole mess of interesting things that could be done with the resource system. Like rewarding your top outfit member with a large payout, and announcing it to the whole outfit. Like an employee of the week kind of thing. Then the outfit gets energised to be Soldier of the week.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:47 PM   [Ignore Me] #28
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Cosmical View Post
Do i want results where my voice isnt heard, or do i have fun with like minded individuals?
Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho View Post
Or you know... playing to win.
words.
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Old 2012-04-15, 03:55 PM   [Ignore Me] #29
BuzzCutPsycho
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by Cosmical View Post
which is fine if youre trying to run an organised military team
Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho View Post
Or you know... playing to win.
Running an "organized military team" is actually different than playing to win. So I felt the need to point it out to you.

Oh! Did I elaborate too much? I meant to say...

words.
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Old 2012-04-15, 04:22 PM   [Ignore Me] #30
Cosmical
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Re: Leadership


Originally Posted by BuzzCutPsycho View Post
Running an "organized military team" is actually different than playing to win. So I felt the need to point it out to you.

Oh! Did I elaborate too much? I meant to say...

words.
sigh...

My point was i said two different things,

1. was that if you want to run an organised military outfit, i understand why the kicking threat was neccessary, because you are trying to remove the time wasters, and that it was as far as PS1 went to enforcement.

And 2. that obviously sometimes those things are neccessary to get results, but at the end of the day people gravitate more towards people they like playing with, and once an outfit reaches a certain size, you lose your voice within it, and it stops being an internet social circle and becomes a way to bark orders.

So how does the game find its middle ground? I liked the feeling of being a soldier in a war bigger than myself and making an impact no matter how small, but other FPS's players want to be the hero. So how do you encourage a player base of John Rambo's to sit in a bunker and shut up? I will be interested to see how much the mission system works, i assume it will take a few weeks/months for people to figure out their not in Kansas anymore....

Oz, where you get Magrindered into paste.
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