Flaws in F2P Design - Page 15

p0intman · 2012-05-26, 01:32 PM

I want everyone to try something in the following method:

Get an accurate timer out, a stopwatch of some sort. It can be on your phone, a watch or whatever. As long as you can accurately time how long it takes to do this.

When you have that done, start the timer as you start the PS1 launcher up. Keep the timer going until you are fully ingame on gemini and able to control your character. Do not leave the computer or timer until then.

post the time.

I was ingame in under a minute (48 seconds, actually) from launching and entering my password to being able to control my character.

With that in mind, I will re-address this and lay it out plainly.

Originally Posted by ArbitraryDemise

I see this as the best option in the F2P format because it adds a level of factional loyalty to the game, and prevents people from just switching sides in a losing battle so they can be on the winning side.

The sense of imposed loyalty is flawed, and I'll explain it.

With more than one account, you can keep more than one character on a single server training 24/7. I have no doubt that there will be skill monitors akin to those used by people who enjoy EVE, and they will be useful. There is no loss in using more than one character. There is no reason not to have more than one account, and there is no imposed loyalty when you can switch characters in under a minute at will, with absolutely no trade off required. At least as it stands in PS1, there is a timer involved to deter this happening on the fly.

Originally Posted by Toppopia

I can tell you are being sarcastic, (i hope you are) and there is no way to swap empires, besides creating a whole new account, and what about all that wasted effort on your old account? You going to give it up just to get 1 win out of thousands? That sounds really stupid to me.

P.S: I wasn't talking to you captainkapautz, i am talking to anyone who thinks about empire swapping, because there is no point really.

to create a new account with soe, you dont need to give up your old account. this is important, because if you look at what I said above...
(cont below)

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

But, and this is the important part really, [what] is the point?

You swapping empire so you don't "lose" really doesn't net you much.

the only thing that matters to some people is to be on the 'winning' team. They don't care for loyalty, they only care about not being steamrolled.

Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD

you ppl that don't have years of experience in PS haven't seen what the dreaded "Fourth Empire" is capable of,it can really fuck over another empire when the herd moves around together as a large group,this used to happen alot when the devs would patch PS,the resulting nerfs/buffs on all empires would sometimes create an issue like Lasher 2.0.

And as SgtMad has said, the "fourth empire" will exist anyway, there will not be any reason for it not to.

Last night, NC had 60 percent global population. We comfortably fought on three continents, and won almost all of them, including VS and TR home worlds. I have no question in my mind that it was due in no small part, to the fourth empire people who switch factions on the fly.

Now, heres the question: Are you prepared to gamble with that in PS2?

This problem will be further exacerbated by the data available, if it is to the degree that Matt Higby has claimed. I will be able to see what empire I want to log into before I log into the game for the first time in the day. All characters training while I'm offline will mean that unless its to change a skill on one, I don't really need to log in and can leave it slowly ticking away. It isn't a big problem, and if you've spent time in EVE, you know that it never ends anyway. It isn't a rush for many of us.

For you new guys that have never played PS1 before, and haven't been playing it very long, take into account that I've had years of experience with this.

onwee · 2012-05-26, 02:01 PM

People are actually going to play PS2 unlike what PS1 is now. The populations will be more balanced and most likely close to maxed out whether you choose to switch sides or not. People faction hoping will not have any real affect on gameplay unless the server is severely underpopulated.

Believe me, I'm a doctor and have over 200 years of experience on the internet.

p0intman · 2012-05-26, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by onwee

People are actually going to play PS2 unlike what PS1 is now. The populations will be more balanced and most likely close to maxed out whether you choose to switch sides or not. People faction hoping will not have any real affect on gameplay unless the server is severely underpopulated.

Believe me, I'm a doctor and have over 200 years of experience on the internet.

Why are you thinking in the short term?

onwee · 2012-05-26, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

Why are you thinking in the short term?

Do you understand how long it's going to be until there's only one underpopulated server left?

Probably about 10+ years when PS3 is getting all the hype. So, what's your question even mean?

p0intman · 2012-05-26, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by onwee

Do you understand how long it's going to be until there's only one underpopulated server left?

Probably about 10+ years when PS3 is getting all the hype. So, what's your question even mean?

[Needs Citation]

This was a problem for PS1 when it was only three years old.

onwee · 2012-05-26, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

[Needs Citation]

This was a problem for PS1 when it was only three years old.

It's opinion, it needs no citation.

If PS2 is down to one server in three years then they have bigger problems than people faction hoping. Your point is moot.

p0intman · 2012-05-26, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by onwee

It's opinion, it needs to citation.

If PS2 is down to one server in three years then they have bigger problems than people faction hoping. Your point is moot.

It doesn't need to only have one server for it to be a problem. It still affects the weight of each empire and the outcome of each fight.

The ONLY mistake I am making is expending the effort to explain this kind of a problem now instead of when it comes up to people who are thinking its going to be a MASSIVEOMGLOLWTF hit and become the WoW of FPS games.

Hamma, if/when you see this, lock the thread. I've tried but nobody seems to want to see the problem they're walking into. Fuck it.

Thomas · 2012-05-26, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by p0intman

[Needs Citation]

This was a problem for PS1 when it was only three years old.

You clearly know nothing about PS1's situation when it was released.

Gonefshn · 2012-05-26, 02:25 PM

I can't believe this is still going. I just don't see how people doing this will effect anyone enough for it to matter. It's going to be such an incredibly small fraction of the population doing it and unlike a real hack it takes work and micromanagement. It's not like it improves accuracy or something tangible. You won't even know its happening and 99% of the time it wont be so it's a moot point to even worry about this.

p0intman · 2012-05-26, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Thomas

You clearly know nothing about PS1's situation when it was released.

P0INTMAN was created in mid to late 2004, before that I was MVS on markov, apart of D2A just after launch (Remember the old pounder? I do). I'd like to say I know more about it than most.

And even if you don't see it, its still a problem.

But hey...

basti · 2012-05-26, 06:44 PM

This thread may be locked, but i get it out of its grave because i have to say something.

p0int, as annoying as you are, you got a point (heh).

The whole "hop onto a different account because its free" thing really has flaws, like cheating, Friendly fire (grief lock? Screw that, New account!), spying etc.
While some of those may be lighter flaws that dont matter much (spying may be one of them, its easy to deal with and not very effective in an FPS anyway), cheating and trolling via friendly fire are quite some big issues that need to be adressed.
BUT, that doesnt have to mean that the game needs a box price. As seen in various games, box prices dont stop cheaters, it just lowers their population. Look at COD or BF3 and you see what i mean.
But we dont want a low cheater populaiton, we want no cheaters at all. And as it seems, the devs are working quite hard to archive that. And if they do what i think they do (and the reason why they went for punkbuster on top of their own AC stuff thats hidden within the client), then they can also do with the trolls by simply denying their ability to easily create another account (or even just switch between existing accounts).

In any way, dont blame it on F2P, thats not the problem. F2P takes away the entry barrier, and thats what caused PS to not be as succesful as it could be.

At the very end, we have to wait till beta, see ourself, and figure out how to fix the problem. And dont get into page long arguments that derail into a flamewar and personal attacks, because those help nobody.