3D spotting

[yiyeyigit]

3D spotting makes it a deathmatch instead of an objective fight.


FACT.

Play every BF with 3D spotting and see what I mean.

[Flaropri]

This has probably been mentioned already but on the off chance someone missed it in 16 pages... (since I don't have the time right now to go through them all)

How about 3D spotting be limited to "Active" spotting (and certs)? That is, the person doing the spotting must maintain visual contact (or keep the device pointed at the target, however it looks to work out) the entire time. If visual contact is broken then the spotting marker shows the last known location for a second or two and then goes away, or it just goes away immediately. Likewise, 3D spotting would only be shared with your squad, and 2D at best for the rest of the army (limited by locale) if appropriate.

As I understand some of the complaints, it is that the spotting marker lasts for a period of time in some games, sort of like an invisible debuff (invisible to the spotted player I mean) and sticks to them even if the spotter loses sight.


I will say that name-plates and other things mitigate the P2W aspect that some camo suits could provide. I also think that some cloaks should be fine to spot as well, depending on the type, with other cloaks putting an end to spotting just as if they had gone around a rock or something.

[xnorb]

Originally Posted by Flaropri

Suggestions

You described how spotting works in BF3 and it doesn't help anything.
It's slightly better than BC2, but still too much.

[Infernalis]

No he didn't describe how it works in BF3, in BF3 you press Q when you see something and that's it, the spotting will follow the enemy (no need of visual contact after you spotted him) and it works for the whole team. If anything what he said is closer to 2142 where only your squad had the 3D spot, the rest of the team had to look on their minimap.

[Stardouser]

3D spotting is just too controversial and too much of an aiming aid, it just needs to not be in the game, things like unbroken visual contact to maintain just make it a jumping through hoops exercise, it's just not worth it to come up with more and more restrictive ideas just to get a mechanic into the game that ultimately just acts as a Robin Hood style skill gap compensator that is cut from the same mold as positional killcam, which as we know, SOE has rejected wholeheartedly.

The only thing I can see being in the game would be STATIC 3D markers that squad leaders can place ie, Squad leaders should have a wide array of orders tools in that style - Move Here, Attack Here, Fire Here, etc which they can activate by looking at a specific point, but none of these are omniscient Q spams, they are just orders.

[IgloGlass]

I want to see minimap spotting as well as coloured name-plates and the ability to place "markers" on the ground for your squad/platoon/outfit. Think ME3 "go here" arrows pointing to the ground.

[Infernalis]

Nah I think 3D spot is a good idea, you just need to implement it in a good way (not like BF).

For example I can clearly see it only for infiltrators specialized in scouting (with certs+equipment like some kind of binoculars so you lose something else like the abiltiy to hack) with a cooldown between each spot or only one target spotted at a time.

Maybe even some kind of dart tracer like BC2 (without the ability to lock on it) so it requires some skills to plant it on something and the enemies can see it because it glows red and can remove it. Make it close range so it's better for infiltrator because they can go in stealth mode.

Basically something to spot enemy valuable targets without easy mode like BF.

[Flaropri]

Originally Posted by Infernalis

only one target spotted at a time.

I was actually thinking that would be the case anyway.


I'm not familiar with BF3, I've never played any of the Battlefield games, so I don't know if my suggestions were similar to what they used or not. One other thing, is that I was thinking "visual contact" would be an area in the center of the screen, rather than being on the screen entirely at all. For example it would require less precision than most weapons, but you wouldn't spot anyone on the peripherals of your screen. Likewise, you could have a cooldown on initiating spotting so that players will be less effective if they try to spam constantly. Also, you could have that area be narrowed in relation to how much of them is visible, so if you see only the foot of a soldier or the barrel of a tank's main cannon you'd have to have it practically dead center of your screen. This also helps to avoid "soft cover" being less effective due to small and largely invisible gaps in brush for example.

3D spotting can have certain advantages to promote more team play. It IS an aiming aid but it is one that, unlike Auto-Aim or similar things, is based on player skill rather than software... if it requires "Active" spotting and is properly balanced. It can reward and support coordination with team-mates.

If you can just spam a button and know the exact position of almost all enemies near you AND then go and shoot them all at your leisure... that is then in the realm of auto-aim: something I despise. I'd much rather have 2D spotting or no spotting at all than that. Same with being able to spot someone you can't see due to distance or terrain.

In fact, if you can just spam a button and know the general location of all the enemies in your view angle I'd rather not even have 2D spotting and rely entirely on VOIP communication and possibly marking a location with signal flares, laser pointers, or whatever to help in that communication.

[Stardouser]

In addition to the aiming aid, it's a self spotting feature. Currently, people use it to acquire targets so that they themselves can shoot at them, and having to keep your sight on the target isn't going to stop that when you are spotting for yourself to get an aiming aid to shoot at. You hit Q, find the target, and shoot at them. Considering that it is used this way, and considering that I've seen this proven time and again in Bad Company 2 and now Battlefield 3, it just does not promote teamwork. It also causes people to go off chasing spots that are not even relevant to a particular objective in order to get the kill, because it makes people aware of players that shouldn't even be aware of each other.


In all seriousness, this sums it up:
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/4...mediumsmal.png


The bottom line is, only 18% of people here are voting for this, and that's far less than voted for prone. SOE needs to do the right thing and let people use their own eyes to acquire targets.

[Flaropri]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

having to keep your sight on the target isn't going to stop that when you are spotting for yourself to get an aiming aid to shoot at.

On the other hand, if they are in your sight already... what real benefit do you get for yourself by spotting instead of just shooting to begin with? If the mechanism is balanced so that you may as well be (near to) shooting them anyway with accuracy requirements then it won't be much benefit for solo use. Alternatively, it could be something that you yourself don't see, and only transmitted to squad-mates, or not allow discharging a weapon while spotting.

Anyway, it's possible my suggestions aren't practical to implement due to code/technical issues anyway. For now, I think it's important to see how it actually works, and then reiterate suggestions from there, whether that be more finicky stuff like I've said or just scrapping the idea entirely, so long as we avoid poor mechanics like people are worried about I'm happy either way.

[WolfAlmighty]

Definitely against 3d spotting myself due to how broken it (along with just about everything else) was in BF3, but if it WERE to be included I was going to suggest it be like Flaropri's idea, that you have a device or some such (e.g. binoculars) that you whip out and use and as long as you hold and maintain visual on the enemy unit it remains 3d spotted, but as soon as you break visual the spot changes to a static marker for a few seconds and goes away. That's just for real-time 3D spotting. Minimap 2D spotting could be done by anyone. I'd just as soon not have 3D spotting in in any form, but if it is to be included it needs to be a pain in the ass to use because it is an extremely effective tool. It simply cannot be as easy as BF3 derpspotting where you just push Q and the entire screen lights up with orange triangles.

[The Kush]

Please remove 3D spotting this is almost as bad as the death cam

[Kezz]

I voted for minimap spots only, and I'd like to add a caveat:

Let us change the damn colours!!!

Washed out light green, I can see (I'm talking about PS1's minimap), not that I need to know where my friendlies are, much, but unsaturated red on whatever darkish, greenish-brownish or grey background happens to be behind my minimap, and I've little to no chance.

As to what should be shown, I think there should be a measure of tech and certing to allow more than the default. The default should vary depending on where you are: in a friendly installation, there could be an assumption of surveillance tech that you can tap into with standard comms gear. That could go away if some unfriendly captures the "Security core" or whatever. Engineers (or Medics - heartbeat sensors, anyone?) could set up sensor nets to improve "out of doors" detection for a squad/local area, and people could cert and equip sensor modules to improve individual detection radius and sensitivity, or dampen others' for improved stealth (I'd guess the Infil suit would have some sort of base dampening effect that could be enhanced, but any armour could carry some sort of anti-tech stealth capacity).

Perhaps the pinnacle of this tech/cert tree would be a Robocop style "predictive wireframe" that guesses (the game would "cheat" and use the real data with random variations) where the opponent that you could see has gone. The more people (or equipment) in the squad with this capacity who've had some sight of the target, the better the "prediction" so long as comms is undisrupted, and those with the relevant module could share the targeting data, whose value and accuracy would degrade quickly if the target was not positively reacquired.

All this surveillance tech of course opens up the potential for meaningful battlefield EWar/InfoWar. Jamming comms, spoofing sensor contacts, suppressing emissions and defeating sensors. Which would be a niche.

And just to be clear, any reference to stealth above is purely referring to stealth against these technical measures. Emphatically not stealth that cloaks you from the Mk1 eyeball like the Infil's stealth field.

[Hypevosa]

how about we have actual spotters who use a pair of binoculars that replaces their secondary weapon but allows them to create a 3d marker for as long as they have that player centered on them? this would be more like a futuristic version of spotting currently used in sniping, but would help everyone.