Shields Replacing Armor - Good or Bad Change?

[Skitrel]

I'm not responding to this thread further. I'm not having exactly the same debate in two, filling up the forum with rubbish. There was zero need to make exactly the same post twice, just stick to the newer, better thread from now.

[Warborn]

A lot of the people on this forum simply refuse to accept anything different from PS1 and similar to some other game as being even remotely acceptable. This thread is a good example of it. It is just incomprehensible to some that maybe PS1 could be improved on, and that there are better ways to handle certain things.

[Zekeen]

Originally Posted by Warborn

A lot of the people on this forum simply refuse to accept anything different from PS1 and similar to some other game as being even remotely acceptable. This thread is a good example of it. It is just incomprehensible to some that maybe PS1 could be improved on, and that there are better ways to handle certain things.

A lot do, but by calling attention to aspects of the game and having people actually TALK about it, the rational and function of the features can be revealed now rather than later. People will ask about that feature and learn more and stop hating it so much. Now Malorn has taken a nice deep look at the system and we know more. People have their right to an opinion no matter the basis, so don't just complain cause they don't accept something for whatever reason, this thread was started to see where everyone prefers and let them discuss it and help call attention to get more info on the subject matter.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Again, there is a distinct difference between the act of yourself, or another healing/Repairing you. Compared to you just hanging low for a moment.

In one situation, you need others to cover you, or your Medic/engi. - Teamwork.

In the other, you just need to hide behind something for a moment. - No Teamwork.

Well tbh every single person in PS1 had med and eng certed, it was still a solo action of hiding behind something, the only different is you had to equip your med/eng app first, rather than just wait.

[LordReaver]

If your health is the bulk of your damage absorption, then shields are fine. Shields can be for minor scratch repair. Damage needs to stick though. Deciding whether or not now is a good time to recharge yourself, is a fun part of tactics. It can get your heart pumping in certain situations.

[Shamrock]

Im just thinking what a murder-fest enclosed tight corridors and stairwells are going to be with no opportunity to pause to cover and patch up before pushing on.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Redshift

Well tbh every single person in PS1 had med and eng certed, it was still a solo action of hiding behind something, the only different is you had to equip your med/eng app first, rather than just wait.

Sure, Except for being unable to shoot while self healing, and the time it took, and the necessity for others to cove you during the action, weather it was on self or another. As opposed to being able to defend yourself, and the shield Regen kicking in after 5 seconds. There is also no resource drain on shields, unlike Med/Repair glue. The system was designed in other titles to remove the need of others.

And again, everyone having the ability was an issue late in PS life, they broke the cert system by giving everyone a ton of certs. Its also unrelated to the what I am saying.

Its OK, I understand. Remove anything that keeps you from running and gunning, or any reliance on others to achieve goals.

Taking design points from games that have refined themselves to remove any reliance or necessity of others does not bode well for a team based title.

But I suppose this is what the current generation wants.

[Kran De Loy]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Sure, Except for being unable to shoot while self healing, and the time it took. As opposed to being able to defend yourself, and the shield Regen kicking in after 5 seconds.

And again, everyone having the ability was an issue late in PS life, they broke the cert system by giving everyone a ton of certs. Its also unrelated to the what I am saying.

Its OK, I understand. Remove anything that keeps you from running and gunning, or any reliance on others to achieve goals.

Taking design points from games that have refined themselves to remove any reliance or necessity of others does not bode well for a team based title.

But I suppose this is what the current generation wants.

You forgot to color your text. Here I fixed it for you.

Edit: Also I disagree with you on pretty much every point you've made arguing against shield systems. Just saying.

[MrBloodworth]

Thanks.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Warborn

A lot of the people on this forum simply refuse to accept anything different from PS1 and similar to some other game as being even remotely acceptable.

Speaking personally, I dislike the session based design thinking in my Team based persistent war game.

I think COD and Bf series are fine series, of session based shooters. Planetside to me, has always been a teamwork focused War game. The individual matters little, this is in contrast to other titles.

Planetside had intentional design decisions built in that promoted teamwork, Other titles have refined themselves to remove it.

[Bonius]

The shield system is another effort to balance the game.

In PS1 anyone with medi/engi certs had a huge advantage over anyone that didn't. By giving everyone the same tools to play with, a 2-year character won't have a huge tactical advantage over a day1 character.

Don't give me the "but in PS1 you had to bring out your X to Y!"-bullshit. Healing and repairing was overpowered, simple as that. If you had the equipment you could just poke away at someone, knowing that they would eventually die if you just sneezed at them.

I like the shield system, it makes combat alot more dynamic and evenly paced.

[MrBloodworth]

Originally Posted by Bonius

The shield system is another effort to balance the game.

In PS1 anyone with medi/engi certs had a huge advantage over anyone that didn't. By giving everyone the same tools to play with, a 2-year character won't have a huge tactical advantage over a day1 character.

You are focused on the individual. This is session based design focus.

So what your saying is, remove the need to bring the right tool for the job, and just give everyone the same thing.

The Cert system was about choices, and part of the game was knowing what equipment to field. This was part of the beauty of it ( Before they broke it by increasing total certs ) This is part of the WAR GAME meta game.

Removing this does not add depth to the game.

[Bonius]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

You are focused on the individual. This is session based design focus.

So what your saying is, remove the need to bring the right tool for the job, and just give everyone the same thing.

The Cert system was about choices, and part of the game was knowing what equipment to field. This was part of the beauty of it ( Before they broke it by increasing total certs ) This is part of the WAR GAME meta game.

Removing this does not add depth to the game.

I'm not saying "remove the need to bring the right tool for the job".

I'm saying: Make sure everyone competes on the same level, to the extent it's possible.

Medics will still be the only ones able to resurrect and heal people.
Engineers will still be the only ones able to put down deployables.
Soldiers will still be the only ones able to give ammo to friendlies.

PS2 is a class based shooter in a MMO-setting, it's as simple as that. All specializations will still have their field of expertise, they're just no longer required to bring non-specialized equipment to the field to stay competative.

If half of the classes would have shields that regenerate and the other classes have shields that don't, then it would most certainly cause balancing issues.

[MrBloodworth]

You are still focused on the individual. Not having a Heal cert was not an issue in a squad settings. It IS a problem, if you are lone-wolfing. Adding shields removes the need of others.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Sure, Except for being unable to shoot while self healing, and the time it took, and the necessity for others to cove you during the action, weather it was on self or another.

TBH i just assumed shields wouldn't charge if you were firing, apart from that everything else is the same, you sit round a corner for a bit and you're back to full health, no one ever ran around healing others because it was mostly pointless as everyone just did themselves. You never ran out of juice because you just looted it you needed, or carried a spare can of each giving you 20 lives worth of rep/med juice!

What they've done is remove the tedious bits of medic and eng and made them more exciting, the med now actively heals during the fight, far better than just pointing the med app at a crouched guy.

The eng i assume is going to get some funky tools, i heard a turret mentioned at least.