we need to see the scat max stats. ( devs please read) - Page 3

Pella · 2013-03-12, 05:33 PM

Look at top killers on leaderboards to understand whats OP. And their "Farm" Potential.

NC - SCAT MAX
TR - HE PROWLERS
VS - Nothing.

OCNSethy · 2013-03-12, 05:35 PM

Have to agree with the close range deadliness of NC maxs... rounded a corner at Vanu Archives last night and found an NC max waiting for me. Oh crap, died. Didnt even have time to try and dodge.

Another one drop-podded on to roof over the spawn room at Crossroad Watchtower. Heard the pod land looked up... dead. No time to react.

Dems deadly dudes.

Sonny · 2013-03-12, 06:07 PM

I definitely agree with the OP that the community needs a lot more access to basic stats about what kills what, at least to put an end to the pointless balancing arguments we see all the time on the main forums (the subject of this thread isn't one of them, by the way

).

Erendil · 2013-03-12, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

You're starting to get whiney. I said it's the NC's strength. When I play TR, I get to enjoy raping NC as they attempt to close the distance with my CARV 9. The current balance is that everything is not the same, some empires are better than others at certain roles. If that isn't good enough for you, at least get it right. I don't spend 50% of my time in a NC MAX, but in an indoor slugfest, I will bring the best weapon for the job. It also doesn't mean the other two MAXes suck. Not by far.

I asked for Heavy Gauss during development, but we still got shotguns.

Your TR analogy is broken because IMO the SAW (and NC LMGs in general) is a much better ranged LMG than the CARV due to the SAW's incredible accuracy and high per-shot damage, the CARV's inaccuracy, and the recent Flinch mechanic change, meaning the NC get better ranged weapons and better CQC MAXes.

However, when comparing ES LMGs at various ranges there is still a wide range of opinions and the minor differences in ability can usually be overcome easily by player skill. But I don't think there's any doubt in anyone's mind that the NC shotgun MAXes are flat-out superior to the TR/VS MAXes in CQC.

Plus, there are these other factors to consider:

Slugs and the Falcon, giving NC MAXes two medium range options. But the TR/VS have no up close option.
The fact that most base objectives (gens, cap pts) are indoors at CQC range
Dual shotgun MAXes can OHK
The firepower of both arms of a Dual TR/VS MAX is equal to about one LMG. The firepower of both arms of a Dual shotgun MAX is equal to TWO shotguns
Shotgun MAXes can easily kill TR/VS AV MAXes, meaning AFAIK they're the only unit in the game without a direct counter in their natural habitat. The fact that only one empire has access to them makes it even worse

I think it's pretty clear that NC shotgun MAXes as they currently stand are broken. Hopefully the MAX balance pass will straighten this out.

Dragonskin · 2013-03-12, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by Pella

Look at top killers on leaderboards to understand whats OP. And their "Farm" Potential.

NC - SCAT MAX
TR - HE PROWLERS
VS - Nothing.

VS - dark default camo makes them hard to see at night.

Yea that isn't a farming weapon, but it's still a perk. I play both VS and TR so agree with you though. VS is lacking after the magrider hit.

Cruiza · 2013-03-12, 10:15 PM

I honestly wish HE rounds and shotguns didn't exist in the game at all. With that said, I'm not crazy about the idea of giving all faction MAXes access to shotgun weaponry. I'd rather have the NC MAX shotgun pellet damage and/or quantity reduced per shot but increase magazine capacity or something along those lines. That way the burst damage is nerfed but the total magazine damage is buffed to compensate. The burst damage is essentially the source of the issue after all.

Chewy · 2013-03-12, 10:58 PM

Now that the VR room is FINALLY coming out I can (try) to put to rest some of the OP/UP myths people have about infantry weapons without needing to rely on the schedules of many others.

Also for any who hasn't seen this video yet of TR and NC MAX testing Id suggest doing so. And no, it's not the one from Beta. This one was posted 1/12/13 and still has merit.

Koadster · 2013-03-12, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Have you guys ever been overrun by 30 TR just using their MAX? That's scarier than an NC MAXes up close. As an NC we can't pull this off, because then nobody can attack < midrange. As TR or VS it's pretty much overkill if EVERYONE just uses the MAX. Brainless tactic, but very effective, think about it. Or better: Don't think about it, I hate that tactic

Ever played tr max vs scatmax. I can't even dump half my mercy magazine before it kills me. I've been killed at the biolab scu while the max was on the outerwall. Just like the magrider ur defending ur max because u know Nc maxes can lockdown a biolab indefinitely given people wanna hang around that long.

Although what I wanna see is vs small ARM kills vs maxes. When in my Nc or tr max. Vs weapons kill me much faster then other factions. Perhaps its a bug to do with the laser projectiles since vs generally do same dmg per shot as tr. Though maxes need more armor in general.1700 certs for 5% small arms resistance is pathetic.

Neutral Calypso · 2013-03-12, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Chewy

Now that the VR room is FINALLY coming out I can (try) to put to rest some of the OP/UP myths people have about infantry weapons without needing to rely on the schedules of many others.

Also for any who hasn't seen this video yet of TR and NC MAX testing Id suggest doing so. And no, it's not the one from Beta. This one was posted 1/12/13 and still has merit.

[Test] NC MAX vs. TR MAX Anti-infantry weaponry 11.01.13 - YouTube

If this were an actual combat situation, the NC max would charge to close range and open up. I'd like to see that test performed again, but with the NC max starting at 30 meters, and using its charge ability to charge in. See if the TR can still fell it if it is charging to point blank before opening up with its CQC weapons.

Tenhi · 2013-03-13, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Koadster

Though maxes need more armor in general.1700 certs for 5% small arms resistance is pathetic.

Just to clear that one up. A MAX starts with 80% small arms resistance and Kinetic Armor gives you an additional 5%. With that you end up at 85% small arms resistance going from 20%dmg taken down to 15%damage taken.

So with 2000 HP and 80%reduction a gun that deals 100dmg does 20dmg and thus takes 100 Shots to kill your MAX. With Kinetic Armor 5 you only take 15dmg instead of the 20dmg and thus the gun needs 133.33 shots to kill you.

One thing to remember is that Rocket Launcher direct hits arent affected by Flak Armor or Kinetic Armor... so a HA with a Rocket Launcher will allways hurt.

Edit: Also note that Kinetic Armor has no effect on the OHK Scat/Hax-MAX. You still die in one magazine...

Lepalose · 2013-03-13, 12:20 AM

Lets not get entirely side tracked here.

The purpose of this thread is to get awareness of the fact that we want the statistics to be released so we do not have these "hand waving" arguments.

If the Devs would kindly oblige (I know it takes a bit of time to data mine and all), I think the discussions would be better informed. And if we can largely agree, across empires, and as a group, that this is something the PS2 community desires I think they would spend a little time getting this data to us.

So lets focus on getting the data first, and save the flame wars until after.

OCNSethy · 2013-03-13, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Lepalose

So lets focus on getting the data first, and save the flame wars until after.

Always a good idea.

Pheonix · 2013-03-13, 01:21 AM

I was not told to post this by anyone except myself. Lep did not just tell me to post this on teamspeak this is legit: I personally believe max data should be revealed to the public.

Goldymires · 2013-03-13, 01:50 AM

Or you know they could give MAXs' the same weapons as their infantry counter parts...NC MAXs' can dual wield pistons. I mean, you can't even mix weapons on a max without gimping yourself.

snafus · 2013-03-13, 02:43 AM

Absolutely agree with this. I really think the data would shed some light on this issue and show everyone that this is a problem that needs to be resolved. And yes there are imbalances on every faction, but we can't use that as an excuse to not try and fix them to improve the overall balance of the game.